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**LyonheartLakshmi** · 10-16-2007, 09:16 AM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

The thread title says "Taru WAR Gear choices", but really every race can pretty much follow the same pricipals when it comes to gearing for DD. And that means the following.
TP: accuracy > attack > STR > DEX
WS: accuracy (especially for multi-hit) > STR/attack > DEX
Equip as much accuracy as you need to hit 85% of the time or more, and then gear for primarily attack while you TP. Try to maintain that same amount of +acc during WS while swapping stuff to get more STR. Attack is still important for WS, so don't swap out stupid amounts of attack for little amounts of STR.

Originally posted by Necropolis View Post

First question I suppose is main weapon. In a few levels theres an Axe with less delay and +5 str that I will most likely upgrade too, but I had an executioner just recently. As a Taru, should I be looking for weapons that help bring up my str defiency? I have higher attack with the Heavy Darksteel, but always a matter when do I have too much attack for my limited str.

+5 STR will raise your base melee damage (what gets calculated before being multiplied by pDif) by roughly one. I assume you are referring to Colossal Axe +1. Since its base damage is only 1 point lower than Heavy Darksteel Axe, it's probably worth the upgrade (considering the lower delay as well as the benefit of extra damage on WS's). Heavy Darksteel Axe to NQ Colossal Axe would be a little harder decision to make (the extra WS damage from the secondary STR modifier would have to bring more benefit than the base melee damage you lose).

Originally posted by Necropolis View Post

Second: For WS should I look to swap out the additional Double attack for more brute strength? I'm loving my 1k Raging Axes now; but am I limiting myself for a chance of double attack procing on WS? And once Dusk comes into play, should I swap to Double Attack AF or a piece with more STR?

That probably depends on just how much STR you're getting, and how much DA you're giving up. AF Feet only boost DA by 1%. If you only get 1 STR by swapping something in, it might not be worth it. 3 or 4 STR, and you'd be getting closer to a worthwhile WS swap item.
You can't swap out the grip without losing TP. The alternative grip for +STR would be Axe Grip. But 2% DA vs 3 STR? I think I'd stick with Pole Strap.
Once you get dusk feet (or even unicorn feet), the +2% (or +3%) haste will do more for your melee damage than +1% DA. You could still macro in AF feet during WSs for a shot at lucky spike damage, or macro in stuff with +STR for WSs.

Originally posted by Necropolis View Post

Third: Grips, initially I thought wow, pole strap hands down. I'm hitting for 100 to 130 a swing right now on exp mobs, more change of double attack the better. But should I hold off on stacking double attack until haste gear become more viable? Would I do better with a grip with str/acc on it?

With the recent 2 handed changes, I don't see acc being an issue. I don't see the +3 STR in the grip slot doing more than +2% DA from Pole Strap.

Originally posted by Necropolis View Post

Fourth: Legs, when to upgrade? And to what? This being my first melee job, I have no abj. gear nor god gear. I know Haidate will be the best TP pants, but I'm not even on the long list yet. (My LS have a 1 month period after reaching 70 before you can lot on gear for that job). And Haidate I'm assuming is for TP onry? What do I wear for WS (again non-abj) Looking at most likely Dusk here, but input is appreciated.

The consensus used to be upgrade to Thick Breeches. Which is still a good idea if you're dual wielding as /NIN. But now, if you're using a GAxe, RK Breeches gets you +5 attack and +2 acc the same as Thick Breeches, and also chips in +2 STR and +2 DEX overall. You could keep wearing RK Breeches for both TP and WS for long time to come. Barone "Skater pants" might be worth upgrading to (more attack at the cost of less acc, which you probably have coming out of your ears).
B. Haidate is exceptional, and doesn't have to be TP only. That 15 DEX is +15 accuracy, and a noticeable boost to +crit % according to those who have a pair of B. Haidate. You're not going to find anything that gives +15 STR in the pants slot to macro in during WS. Keeping Haidate on during WS does allow you swap out other acc pieces for STR stuff though. Until I get B. Haidate, I'm sticking with Dusk Trousers for both TP and WS (I just don't see 3 STR doing more for WS than 14 attack).

Originally posted by Necropolis View Post

Fifth: Hands. Can't come close to deciding here. The 2 hand update is great, and I know that Pallas is hurting my acc more than it was before. But with no food I was hitting about 87% accuracy on Lesser colibri, and about 82% acc on on Colibri even with Pallas on. But having Spiked Finger Gauntlets I'm not hurting accuracy at all, but also not getting the benefits of the additional str. I'm assuming Pallas for WS for the added strength, but what about TP gear? Should I swap to Pallas that gives me less attack than spked, or go Pallas full time?

I'd TP in Spiked Finger Gauntlets. +9 STR is only going to raise your base damage by roughly 2, and that's around a 2% increase for you. For SFG's +12 attack to make the same 2% increase, you're base attack would have to be around 600. Something tells me it's not that high -- not without meat + Berserk + BRD (and Berserk won't be on 100% of the time).

Originally posted by Necropolis View Post

Sixth: Waist. Looking at the Potent belt. +3 str and +8 accuracy. Lately I've found I can TP in Sword Belt +1 without sacrificing accuracy, but Potent is kind of a mix of my two belts. Should I get it? And should I just swap it in for WS or go full time. It's less attack than Sword belt, but gives me that accuracy as well. I suppose in part depends what I'm fighting, but just wondering if this is a no brainer that I'm missing.

I don't think you can beat Swordbelt +1 for TP, especially if you're already parsing high acc. Potent Belt is probably a good WS piece for Raging Rush at your level. At 71+, you might find yourself swapping to Warwolf Belt for both TP and WS.

Originally posted by Necropolis View Post

Last, what key pieces of gear should I be eyeing? Defiantly looking into Dusk hands/feet for TP. Going to do some Codex farming for swift belt. Have Wahalrn turban already, as well as Ohat. For Great Axe I'm thinking Martial for the TP bonus, though not certain. I had been considering Maneater/juggy, but comparing my damage now between dual wield axes and Gaxe, I just can't find myself going back to dual wield for a while. Perhaps as I acquire harder to gear I would though.

M. Bhuj once you unlock Steel Cyclone. Otherwise, stick to high damage GAxe's like Berserker's Axe for Raging Rush. I don't know if Assault Earring would be a noticeable boost over what you have. Brutal's Earring is something I wish I had. A Flame Ring would be good to swap in for your Ulthalam's during WS at end game (just get the lvl 72 NQ one until 75, since the HQ one at 72 get's obseleted by Flame).
Everything else is really pricey upgrade or marginal upgrade for the cost (Peacock Charm, Forager's Mantle, Alky's Bracelets, etc). Stuff that I wouldn't suggest you make yourself broke to upgrade.

Originally posted by Necropolis View Post

And I suppose the final gear question: Which abj/god/HNM/sea gear should I be aiming for first for war? I'm fairly active in all aspects of the game, and have a shot at pretty much all the gear. I'm certainly not going to start lotting ridills and e bodies before the more vetern members of the shell, but other than that what should I be looking for? War can wear so much, and I unfortunatly don't have an unlimited supply of gil to uncurse everything.

I just recently got into the end game scene (well, Sky anyway). My wish list looks like this:
1. B. Haidate.
2. N. Hands.
3. N. Feet.
B. Haidate is no-brainer upgrade. N. Hands will let me displace Alky's so that I'm suffering 0 acc loss during WS, and instead go the opposite direction (more acc and crits). N. Feet because I don't see any other WS pieces coming close to it.
Other than that, Byakko's Axe is a strong alternative to Berserker's Axe for Raging Rush. And there are various pieces of god gear with hefty amounts of +HP if you want to help tank lesser HNMs.

**Necropolis** · 10-16-2007, 09:38 AM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

Thank you Lyon. Most helpful info that I'll put use to tonight.

My only concern and mean by putting Taru in the title was that with 1 str= 1 att now for 2 handers, thats an even bigger boost for other races. I wasn't sure if I should pretty much copy/pasta an elvaan's war gear or look more into bringing up the taru's lack of str. But I think I got it now; thank you sir.

**Armando** · 10-16-2007, 03:38 PM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

STR's benefits are the same no matter how low or high your total STR is. Being Taru doesn't have much to do with it, and it's kind of hard to have a STR deficiency in relation to other job/race combos when you're a WAR anyways.

Colossal Axe is better. You get a free 4 Attack, 1 extra DMG from the STR, and the slightly lower Delay means it gets TP slightly faster (assuming you land 2/3 hits in Raging Rush, both axes need the same number of swings to reach 100 TP.)

Pole Strap is best. Haste gear doesn't have too much to do with DA either.

I'd TP in Spiked Finger Gauntlets. +9 STR is only going to raise your base damage by roughly 2, and that's around a 2% increase for you. For SFG's +12 attack to make the same 2% increase, you're base attack would have to be around 600. Something tells me it's not that high -- not without meat + Berserk + BRD (and Berserk won't be on 100% of the time).

Correction: 600 Attack is the most your Attack can be before +12 Attack becomes less than a 2% increase. If he has less than 600 Attack, then +12 Attack is more than a 2% increase. That aside, Attack doesn't transfer so neatly into damage.

The real reason SFG are better is because Pallas's Bracelets cost you 5 Acc, which means -2.5% hit rate. That pretty much undoes all the benefits from the extra 2 DMG.

**Lmnop** · 10-16-2007, 04:27 PM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

Am I the only person that thinks Acc isn't stat #1 if you're using a GA...?

I mean, it's up there. But don't gung-ho it up. Then again, Armando's above me saying that the -2.5% hit rate from Pallas' will bring down your damage more than bring it up... Parsing is the answer to this.

**Necropolis** · 10-16-2007, 05:41 PM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

Typically when I reach a new camp or get a new level, I'll start in att damage gear and look at my accuracy. I usually just take the average over a about 30 minutes of fighting with and without aggressor. I don't really want to macro in acc gear every couple of minutes to macro it back out depending if aggressor is up or not. Perhaps down the line I'll do that, but not when gear is changing every level or two.

With Hasso I'm finding myself able to wear more att/str gear as opposed to acc, and I love that. However, busting out 700+ Raging Rushes and having meditate typically put me rather high on the hate list so I'm forced to sub /nin in most pickup parties. I really don't mind, because it's over all better for the party if I'm not draining the mages every fight; but I've had a few that were the tank could keep hate off me and I loved it.

I only mention the the STR defenciency because I was comparing gear with a friend of mine. Perhaps not the best thing to do considering he's an Elvaan with str merits. But in comparision in nearly identical gear (he's using a +1str grenade, Haub+1, and Str+ grip) he's doing nearly 1000 each raging rush wear as I can barely bust 750 consistantly. I have 90str with Hasso, compared to I believe his 115. And while he TPs in more str than me as well, he's hitting for more each swing as well.

I certainly don't expect to outparse an elvaan in a DD job, but for the gaps to be so large between the two I was wondering wear I should focus on to close that gap. I love that these forums always say 'play the job you like, gear will make up for racial differences', I'm just curious if I've hit a point in my melee career wear I need to step away from cookie-cutter war gear and focus on those racial differences.

**Armando** · 10-16-2007, 05:48 PM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

Is your friend higher in level than you? Being just 2 levels under him will seriously gimp your damage by comparison. Also, that 25 STR difference doesn't just mean 5 more DMG on his weapon, it also means 25 more Attack. Of course, comparing a Taru to an Elvaan with Haub +1 and STR merits isn't fair at all.

Regardless, the most important thing on any WS with 3 more hits is ACCURACY. Even with 95% hit rate, you can only land all 3 hits 85.7% of the time. Think about what happens when your hit rate isn't capped. Missing a hit hurts your RR damage far more than any reasonable amount of STR can fix.

EDIT: Also, if he has crit merits then that's yet another reason for his Raging Rushes to do more damage than yours more often.

**Necropolis** · 10-16-2007, 05:56 PM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

We were the same level for a while, but he is now a level ahead of me by about 13k exp. Comparision was with the same gear (including weapon), except what I had mentioned and Rajas at the time while we were the same level.

I will keep a closer eye on how often I miss a hit on RR. I hadn't really been paying attention, just kinda figured if I had an odd ball 200 RR or notice I only got 1 TP back from the WS that I missed a hit.

---

On a side note, what is the expected return TP on RR? I, for some reason, want to say 20. The only store TP gear I have on is Chiv chain (and Rajas this weeked). However I notice that sometimes I only get 1 TP back. Is this a matter of missing the first hit? Or something else?

Thank you for all the useful feedback.

**Armando** · 10-16-2007, 06:03 PM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

TP return for any WS is your normal TP gain for the first hit, + 1 TP for subsequent hits (this 1 TP IS affected by Store TP just like how your normal TP gain will have the Store TP factored into it as well.)

You're using a Heavy Darksteel Axe, that should be 14.4 TP return normally. With Chiv.Chain, 14.4 * 1.01 = 14.544, which gets truncated at the tenths place, for 14.5 TP return. Likewise, the extra hits would give 1 * 1.01 = 1.01, which gets truncated back to 1.0. So your RRs are 14.5 + 1 + 1 = 16.5 TP. And yes, a 1 or 2 TP return means you missed the first hit, and landed one or two of the second/third hits.

With Rajas as well, the new numbers would be...
14.4 * 1.06 = 15.264 -> 15.2
1 * 1.06 = 1.06 -> 1
Total: 15.2 + 1 + 1 = 17.2

Having 1 extra TP generally means you got a Double Attack. Missing TP is obviously missed hits.

You're welcome.

EDIT: I like to have a /wait 2 followed by an /echo <tp> in my WS macro so I can "record" the TP return of my WS's. I recommend you do the same, if only because it helps in situations where the mob hits you shortly after you ready the WS, or when you hit the mob shortly after the WS hits.

**Necropolis** · 10-16-2007, 06:18 PM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

Ah, thank you for that Armando. I had never thought of using the /echo <tp> for that.

The more I play war the more fascinated I am with figuring out what makes it tick. Perhaps time to start looking up every available source for formulae and start crunching some numbers while at the office.

**Armando** · 10-16-2007, 06:24 PM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

No prob. If you have any general game mechanics or equation-related questions, feel free to PM me if you don't want to derail the thread with that sort of discussion. Or you can just post here and probably get an answer from someone else sooner. Whichever you prefer.

**LyonheartLakshmi** · 10-17-2007, 10:17 AM

Re: Taru War Gear choices

Originally posted by Armando View Post

Correction: 600 Attack is the most your Attack can be before +12 Attack becomes less than a 2% increase. If he has less than 600 Attack, then +12 Attack is more than a 2% increase.

Thanks for the clarification. That's sorta what I was trying to say. The "break even" point between the two bonuses is at 600 attack. Higher than that, SFG raises attack by less than 2%, and lower than that, SFG raises attack higher than 2%. I guess I should have worded it differently.

Originally posted by Armando View Post

STR's benefits are the same no matter how low or high your total STR is. Being Taru doesn't have much to do with it, and it's kind of hard to have a STR deficiency in relation to other job/race combos when you're a WAR anyways.

Not to mention, I don't think I've ever met an Elvaan or Galka WAR who said, "I've got so much STR already, I don't need the +STR from Flame Rings. I think I'll just equip a couple of Thunder Rings for WS instead." It's usually, "WHOOOO my STR is 88+BAJILLION I RAWK!"

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