/mnk 30-37?

[Ungerpurr]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

War/mnk is hands-down the best tank in the game 30-37 (hell, 1-37) for several things:

1) Consistent aggro generation
2) Damage done
3) Survivability (max HP)

The only place they even possibly fall short is for damage intake, and even that, given that you're using meat food and defender 100% of the time (or can use fish food and no defender, but meat food/defender is cheaper), is debatable. You have more ATK than a pld, more def than a pld, you don't require babysitting like a nin/war or war/nin...just pure up tanking in teh face.

The only other SJ worth using for war from 30-37 (well, 30-47, really) is /THF, imo, as a DD. The overall package of war/mnk is a superior tank to war/nin when you take everything into consideration in your average PT. If the PT is full of people who will never screw up, dual war/nin or combo of nin/war and war/nin is possible. That is rarely the case. I think people sometimes forget how often (pickup) groups suck pre-50, as a rule.

I tanked war/mnk to 37 (although I had /thf available, I never had the opportunity to use it because I was always tanking). I had rock solid aggro 30 seconds into the fight. No other class combo can say that, at that level range. We're talking axe/shield and even when I was doing maybe 80-120 damage per minute (IT++), the mob couldn't be pulled off me.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

The overall package of war/mnk is a superior tank to war/nin when you take everything into consideration in your average PT. If the PT is full of people who will never screw up, dual war/nin or combo of nin/war and war/nin is possible. That is rarely the case. I think people sometimes forget how often (pickup) groups suck pre-50, as a rule.

I agree with that in most average pick-up parties. I can think of a couple cases where /NIN would make more sense than /MNK in an average pick-up party at this level range.

1. When the pt needs you to set up SATA onto a PLD. You won't be taking a huge beating if you did this as /MNK, but it does save the pt a bit of MP. Boost doesn't buy you *that much* in the DD department, and you can always use a GAxe even with /NIN.

2. When the pt needs you to pull. Shadows are nice when pulling, but that's not the biggest reason. The biggest advantage /NIN gives to a puller over /MNK is mob radar. When pulling mobs that link and detect by sound, mob radar makes a huge difference when it comes to trying to eyeball whether or not a nearby mob will link.

[Icemage]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

Actually I think the strongest tank in the 30-37 range right now is hands down BLU/WAR. Coccoon + Provoke + Head Butt + Bludgeon is a better package than any other tank job combination at that level range.


Icemage

[Celeal]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

I tried to tank as BLU/WAR once in Qufim, it seems to me that BLU/WAR burn so much mp per battle, even more than a PLD at that level. I don't know, maybe I was trigger happy. Too hard to resist Head Butt + Bludgeon spam.

[Lmnop]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

if you're War 30+ and setting up for TA onto another tank, I'd rather go /thf than /nin. Considering having a THF around means you'll get beaten less in the long run (unless your thf really sucks) and because you can use SA Sturmwind as a mid-battle provoke with a smart thf sitting on the other side.

[Celeal]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

if you're War 30+ and setting up for TA onto another tank, I'd rather go /thf than /nin. Considering having a THF around means you'll get beaten less in the long run (unless your thf really sucks) and because you can use SA Sturmwind as a mid-battle provoke with a smart thf sitting on the other side.

Since you bring up WAR/THF + THF setup, I would tag on my personal experience

From level 40 to 50, I got invited to a party as WAR/THF couple of times (I was lucky , the party leaders allowed me to choose my subjob), and in 2 parties I was trick partner for a THF.

Even with a THF's SATA on tank, WAR/THF can still pull hate over the hate threshold if the mob is not weak to dragger damage:
1. G.Axe + attack food, when Aggressor is up, SA + Sturmwind (with either Beserk or Warcry is up), then 1 or 2 connected swing can nullify the hate control from THF's SATA Viper Bite.
2. When Aggressor is down, SA + Shield Break at the beginning of fight (attack food), then a few connected swing (double attacks, critical hits, etc) can give the Tank some trouble, if the Tank is not careful.

When geared properly, Sturmwind can hit hard without stacking Sneak Attack (before level 50, before Rampage is available). My advice is to use SA + Sturmwind depends on time and stituation, especially in parties without any THF.

A good DD would deal good damage. A great DD would deal great damage while taking the least damage at the same time

[tdh]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

Even with a THF's SATA on tank, WAR/THF can still pull hate over the hate threshold if the mob is not weak to dragger damage:

1. G.Axe + attack food, when Aggressor is up, SA + Sturmwind (with either Beserk or Warcry is up), then 1 or 2 connected swing can nullify the hate control from THF's SATA Viper Bite.

2. When Aggressor is down, SA + Shield Break at the beginning of fight (attack food), then a few connected swing (double attacks, critical hits, etc) can give the Tank some trouble, if the Tank is not careful.
When geared properly, Sturmwind can hit hard without stacking Sneak Attack (before level 50, before Rampage is available). My advice is to use SA + Sturmwind depends on time and stituation, especially in parties without any THF.

A good DD would deal good damage. A great DD would deal great damage while taking the least damage at the same time

This is the problem I ran into. I've been a DD WAR for about 80% of my career now as I was fortunate enough to find an awesome Taru who wanted to level PLD. Now he knew how crazy SA Sturmwind could be, and warned me to "pick my battles." I always made sure he had a pretty solid beat on hate before I dropped the hammer. Well at Lv.50 I was managing a handful of 500 to 700dmg SA Sturmwinds, with my already high damage output, and skillchain of Viper Bite > Sturmwind, I got to tank.

I found WAR/MNK tanking with Shield & Axe from LV.15 until Sturmwind was quite nice. An old friend of mine used to tank like that, and I was surprised at how many times he would Counter and then Double Attack at Lv.25.

To address the O.P, I would personally rather have a WAR as a DD than a tank, but a WAR/NIN before Lv.48 just gets to me. Get a Great Axe and sub THF or MNK and do as much damage as you can. I know the merits behind a WAR/MNK w/ Shield Break, but I've seen how well a WAR/MNK can tank with a Shield and Axe.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

WAR Lv.30-40 with /NIN isn't that bad. It's not my preference, but it was what the party leaders usually wanted from me.

Have to say with NIN tanks in parties, it did make a lot of sense--they have enough trouble without me going SA + Sturmwind on them. Or, to be more precise, I got enough unfriendly attention from monsters without ever using provoke to make me wonder if there's any point to using more DD orientated suport job.

Great Axe is a fearsome tool (until Rampage from one-handed axe).

* * *

I've been invited to tank only one time Lv.30-40 on WAR, I think. The leader ask for WAR/NIN. Then, told me I was the tank after I got there. -_-;

[Lmnop]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

what I was trying to address earlier is that pertinent to this thread, /mnk is great. and that's all there is to it. If you can make your own parties / get parties to accept you as war/mnk, you can do excellent.

I am a Warrior. I think Warriors with only one subjob are gimp. I think Warriors with only axe or greataxe are gimp. But that only applies to Wars level 38+. Maybe some day he'll have to take care of other subs for his PLD, but that doesn't matter yet. mnk to 18 -> war to 37 -> pld to 75 -> play around with other jobs. That's all there is to it. Party with friends and smart people on your war, PLD should take care of itself.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: /mnk 30-37?



Things like this make me very sad ultimate killing machine



Really the worst part to this party is that I would have taken less damage, and held hate better going /mnk.

Why, because Shadows do jack when your tanking alone at 30-37, especially because Bats and Beetles have double attack.

So I had lower offense, I took more damage, I couldn't hold hate.

In other words I was 133t.


They actually brought a PL to tank because it was such a crappy party.

I hate people sometimes

They also asked me if I could go Axe-Axe over Gaxe...

[dirtyclown]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

I love people like that. They're so stupid.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

Hmm well that definatly wasn't bad today.

I practically forced my leader to let me /mnk cause they had two White Mages, and I was the only tank up.


I got hit for 40-50 with defender (30s with shield blocks)

With the correct defense move I got hit for about 30-40 (20s on shield blocks)


So all in all, the enemies slowly chipped away at my Elvaan hp.

Went from 34-36

Today I taught more people that /mnk rocks in the 30s. And very feasible for anyone to do.

(As long as your stubborn about it heheh ^^)

[Celeal]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

Very nice :D

WAR/MNK solo tank at 30s is the way to go! With 2 whm it definitely not an issue.

How is rate of shield block from WAR at level 30s? From the number you posted, are you using size 2 shield?

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

Well shield blocking wasn't that much (despite the size 2 shield)

About 35% of the time it blocked, not big but saved me a lot of times when the crawlers decided to double attack.

Today was more a parry day for me though.

(Also I already have evasion, parry, and shield capped from paladin to 50)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: /mnk 30-37?

WAR/MNK is perfectly fine for pure tanking. The definition of "Tanking" in FFXI has been twisted into something it really isn't - avoiding damage or "blink-tanking." No, tanking drawing the attention of the enemy with damage and enmity and taking a hit for the party. Its about getting the enemy to focus on you, not just avoiding hits.

WAR/NIN is a terrible tank before 50 because they do not have the tools to generate the same level of enmity as WAR/MNK could. They can't keep hate at all, meanwhile WAR/MNK can hold the mob's attention with Provoke, Boost, Dodge and Defender. The only edge WAR/NIN really has at that level is they can get away better with Berserk than WAR/MNK could, but they still won't hold hate like WAR/MNK.