About the new job adjustments...

[Vyuru]

Re: About the new job adjustments...

Last time i got to do it in exp was 52. Went well, but that was low end mobs. You won't find their like ever again in the 50s and beyond. I got hit by an imp the other night for 169 damage (normal swing) in full attack gear.

Just so I'm clear on this since I haven't fought imps in exp parties, while all ToAU mobs are supposed to be weak, Imps are supposed to be really weak physically in offense and defense but have strong magic right? If so, I can really see why war/mnk wouldn't be as good at tanking then, I would have expected a physically weak mob to hit you for less than that in full tanking gear. Now granted you weren't eating +def/vit foods, but even so, 120ish/hit is what I would expect a pld to get hit for by a IT high attack mob you know?

Ideally, the price would be bad exp for those w/out multiple weapons capped

I guess I'm living in that fantasy world where people might actually want their warrior to use a Gaxe to open/close a darkness SC.

We all know that the reason no WARs are war/sam yet is because 97% of them are too stupid to come out of their dual wielding shells. They cannot bear to think that there could be a method to rival Utsusemi. This isn't just Warriors though, this is all the other party members who don't know enough about the game to let their WARs try something new.

I have to agree, it's not always the warriors who aren't willing to try something different. I have plenty of parties telling me that I should be going as drg/thf instead of drg/war. On the other hand though I have invited some warriors who came as war/nin and used a two handed weapon in the lvl 50+ range. I could be wrong, but I don't see the benefit that subbing ninja gives a lvl 54 warrior using a Gaxe, especially when you have a paladin and thief in the party.


SharMarali, I have to say that is a beautiful post. I have a warrior friend who went through something similiar. He was one of the first people to level warrior as a main job, and while he had other jobs/weapons leveled, he was also one of the first people to go war/nin.

I've seen him go through some problems for leveling warrior back in those days, since after all everyone knew that the advanced jobs were SO superior in every way, otherwise they wouldn't be advanced jobs! /roll eyes

It's kind of sad that now when warrior is seen as one of the top DD, he has problems with the party when he wants to switch to a different weapon in parties, or a different sub.

At least not without a whole lot of video evidence.

I still don't think people would believe it. Waayyyy back pre ranger nerf, this guy would give a good ranger a run for his money for the slot of top DD, and the ranger would still be asking him why he was playing a weak job like warrior.

Sadly people will believe whatever they want to believe, and will go to whatever lengths to prove themselves right.

And the more right you are, the more angry they will get and they will go to even farther lengths to prove you wrong.

[Lmnop]

Re: About the new job adjustments...

Sorry Vyuru, my last post seems like I was bent on disagreeing with you -- I did not mean it to seem that way. Moving on...

Imps do actually hit pretty hard, surprisingly. At least, they hit a 68 PLD pretty hard. I never watch the log closely enough but I'm quite sure I saw him take a 90 normal swing. If I had to guess, he prolly also got hit for 50 as often as he did for 70, but like I said I'm not good at paying attention. As a low def, low VIT warrior, every mob that attacks me has a very high range of potential damage, even when i put on the tricks. I just realized that when I got hit by that Imp, I could've very well had Berserk up and didn't notice, so I guess take my observation with a grain of salt.

At any rate, I truely believe a War/mnk could reduce damage taken to a level of a PLD, but I think a PLD could hit that same amount of damage taken and be able to provide the same DD potential + self cures + lots of shield blocks/flashes to negate incoming damage. I don't think my C+ Shield skill would cut it to be axe/shield, though Full Break is wonderful. Full Break + Dodge = I might just have a chance to evade an attack.

On what SharMarali said: That time when WARs moved from being SJ to being wonderful is marked by the belief that the all new war/nin would kick everything's ass. What's interesting about this is that the Warrior DD potential hadn't really changed. Honestly, a war/mnk with viking axe+shield @55 will do almost as good as a war/nin DD-wise. The difference was even more moot back then when everything and everyone sucked (woot! We got chain 5!!!) A War/thf still is and always has been the biggest, baddest DD levels 30-55. /nin didn't really bring anything new to the DD table, except for 0-penalty for stupid DD tactics (hello mob with yellow name. Meet Weapon Skill). <--- btw, I pulled with Mistral axe a couple times the other night. It's fun when you trust your tank will get hate within 6 shadows. Still retarded of me.

For the record (and I've noted this experience multiple times) that level 52 party was getting chain 5s pretty much every time on Antica. I started as war/nin when I was at the top of 50, but I was complaining about 2x SAM hate problems and talking about how I wish I had /mnk on. The blm was smart: he's like "you have mnk leveled?!? go change right now!" So I did, and it was wonderful for a level. But after that it was crabs that hit twice as hard. And every mob since then just hits harder (IT raptor once hit me for over 200 damage normal swing in defense swap in high 50s).

[Celeal]

Re: About the new job adjustments...

Actually I tried war/mnk at level 60 as a DD using attack+ food. Alternative between Aggressor and focus, with a fair amount +acc gear. The acc. is not as good as sushi, but each hit usually lands at high range.

On the other hand, I think /SAM at level 50 or 60 is okay if there is a good tank in the party. Otherwise I think at level 70 with Seigan + Third Eye is more well-round for both offense and defense.

[Vyuru]

Re: About the new job adjustments...

Sorry Vyuru, my last post seems like I was bent on disagreeing with you

Oh no, I didn't think that at all, it's just that this:

Ideally, the price would be bad exp for those w/out multiple weapons capped

Makes me think of Icemage's "how to fix blm" thread and the discussion on TP burn parties and rampage spammage, which was what my SC dream world comment was about.

At any rate, I truely believe a War/mnk could reduce damage taken to a level of a PLD, but I think a PLD could hit that same amount of damage taken and be able to provide the same DD potential + self cures + lots of shield blocks/flashes to negate incoming damage. I don't think my C+ Shield skill would cut it to be axe/shield, though Full Break is wonderful. Full Break + Dodge = I might just have a chance to evade an attack.

It would be interesting to compare a paladin's damage output who used Vorpal Blade/Spirits Within and a Gaxe using war/mnk using whatever WS in that level range that would work best.

It's a little hard for me to judge how good of a tank war/mnk could be, mostly because few people are willing to try something new in a exp party, and most of my own personal tanking experiances have been below level 40, although there was that time I tanked raptors in the Valley of Sorrow as dragoon since we had a bad ninja tank, that was fun.

There are for sure benefits, but also drawbacks as well, lack of self curing like a paladin being one of them.

There is also just so much that I don't know about how war/mnk works. For instance it seems that my Counter rate goes up whenever I use Dodge, but I don't know if that's just coincidental or if it has something to do with me being a mithra or what.

One thing I am a bit curious about are some of the enchanted items and their effectiveness. For instance the lvl 40 haste belt. I wouldn't mind using this when I level warrior depending on the potency and duration of the haste spell, my main craft is weaving and I am working on leatherworking anyway. Does anyone know how this particular item works? Or of any other enchanted items that might be useful?

[Lmnop]

Re: About the new job adjustments...

Counter appears to be linked most to accuracy. If I had to guess, it goes through a pattern like this: Monster swings, there's a % chance that you can counter the hit. Let's say 10%(yeah right). if the hit lands in that %, a melee attack roll is made. If that attack would normally succeed, you counter the attack. Let's say you have 80% accuracy. You're looking at an 8% counter rate (80% of 10%).

One thing I am a bit curious about are some of the enchanted items and their effectiveness. For instance the lvl 40 haste belt. I wouldn't mind using this when I level warrior depending on the potency and duration of the haste spell, my main craft is weaving and I am working on leatherworking anyway. Does anyone know how this particular item works? Or of any other enchanted items that might be useful?

Tested by none other than Nny: 10% Haste. Lasts 3 minutes. STACKS with Haste. If you remove the belt, you lose the haste effect. I have one and use it for BCNMs. I've been really wanting to level Leathercraft and GP the item to make them. I'm such a prick, I wouldn't use one of these in exp unless you're getting Haste cast on you all the time as well. 10% Haste= not worth the party unless the party is so good that I'm getting another 15% from Haste Spell.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: About the new job adjustments...

It's a little hard for me to judge how good of a tank war/mnk could be, mostly because few people are willing to try something new in a exp party

WAR/MNK tank... "something new"...

Here I thought WAR/MNK was the original Level 5 to 75 tank. >_>; Silly me.

[TehTyr]

Re: About the new job adjustments...

Counter appears to be linked most to accuracy. If I had to guess, it goes through a pattern like this: Monster swings, there's a % chance that you can counter the hit. Let's say 10%(yeah right). if the hit lands in that %, a melee attack roll is made. If that attack would normally succeed, you counter the attack. Let's say you have 80% accuracy. You're looking at an 8% counter rate (80% of 10%).

I counter a decent amount (well, about half as much as I evade, which isn't much for IT mobs), but I can tell you that if you go axe/shield, you can level both your axe and your shield if you counter.
(Gotta love that reduction in dmg from using shield, can't wait for +10 on hands )

If I had to put a number on it, I'd say with Great Axe I counter about 3 times in a battle with an Antican Secutor, which saves me about ~210HP while also inflicting 450+ dmg.
(Countered attacks seem to also have a plus to dmg, and tend to go critical a lot.)

[Lmnop]

Re: About the new job adjustments...

I've noticed that part about high counter damage too. I remember a war/mnk tank I had once in the jungles who was hitting for like 30ish with his Great Axe, but would counter frequently for over 80 damage. I wonder if it just has a higher crit chance or something. but a lot of them were 50ish. Dunno what to make of it.

[Malacite]

Re: About the new job adjustments...

A War/thf still is and always has been the biggest, baddest DD levels 30-55.

I'm going to have to disagree on that one >_>

Yeah, WAR/THF does kick most other job's asses for those levels (I experienced this myself personally and freaking loved it) but RNG/WAR with rice dumplings is still king, especially back before the nerf.


Sorry, the RNG in me (much as I dislike what SE has done to the job) just had to cry out. ^^b