Great Axe...?

[Murphie]

Re: Great Axe...?

I loved countering with GAXE as a WAR/MNK. It made me all tingly.

[Feba]

Re: Great Axe...?

Yeah, counter is pretty freaking hot. If PLD ever got their own voke ability, MNK would be such an awesome sub...



I mean, everyone would use /NIN, but MNK would be so kickass for PLD. Um, off topic.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Great Axe...?

Armando: Are you a math teacher? That aside, thanks for bringing some numbers into this to help show my point.

>_> Are you sure you understand Armando's post? Comparing number to number, he says Military Axe (Great Axe) can do about 10.3% more damage than Tigerhunter (one-hand Axe); 7.9566 dmg/s vs.7.1367 dmg/s.

He quietly pointed out that all else equal, you'd get more damage from Military Axe on WAR/NIN than dual Tigerhunter. (Think what WAR/THF can do with that once hit Lv.30+)

Not saying you're doing badly because you avoid Great Axes, but if it's a choice between those two weapons, Military Axe wins both for damage potential (Sturmwind) and potential for helping melees in party (Shield Break).

I always brought both Axe and Great Axe to party on WAR, depending on what party needs for SC. Then again, I understand wanting to play your own way--I never did let on I had /NIN available when I was on WAR.... <_<; I liked WAR/MNK... (Wish I have time to level DRG for subjob, though... Not that I can afford that earring... ._. )


Edit:

...but people at this level only see damage, and want Sturmwind anyway ...

It's not true that pick up parties only use Distortion; my last party in the second jungle on RDM had Fragmentation and Distortion. Well, the party leader (me) only wanted Distortion (Double Thrust > (SATA) Fast Blade), but the WAR/MNK was unhappy when I ask him to solo Shield Break at the beginning of fights, so the JP DRK set up Shadow of Death > Sturmwind with him, ignoring me... ._.

[Feba]

Re: Great Axe...?

Show my point that Great Axe triumphs in WS, but Axe can outdd it in normal melee.


While he compared Military Axe to Tigerhunters, he should've compared to Military pick. There's no reason to pick the best of one weapon, and the standard of another. I didn't even know there WAS a Military Axe, when I first read his post I assumed he was talking about Picks.

[Murphie]

Re: Great Axe...?

I've never even seen a Military Axe at the AH. I've seen the occasional Military Pick, but they are also ridiculously expensive.

[Armando]

Re: Great Axe...?

Show my point that Great Axe triumphs in WS, but Axe can outdd it in normal melee.


While he compared Military Axe to Tigerhunters, he should've compared to Military pick. There's no reason to pick the best of one weapon, and the standard of another. I didn't even know there WAS a Military Axe, when I first read his post I assumed he was talking about Picks.

But if you combine normal damage and WS damage, Great Axe still comes out on top.

The reason I don't compare it to military picks is because there's no point. Military Picks would probably just come out on top by virtue of their amazing (for that level) DMG/Delay ratio. I referred to it as "THE GOD AXE" and pretty much acknowledged its awesomeness. Also, Military Picks are pretty damned expensive, and somewhat rare (I believe they come from Garrison, after all) so you hardly see people using them, let alone two. But, if you really want me to...

Raging Axe w/ Dual Wielded Military Picks:
[(24 * (45 * 0.30)) * 1.0 * 1.0] * 3 = 111 damage

Dual Wielded Military Picks
6.3 TP per hit
Hits needed post-WS to reach 100 TP: 14 (7 Attack rounds)
Time required: 54.6 secs
Damage done in 7 attack rounds: 336
WS damage: 111
Total damage: 447
Total damage/second: 447/54.6 = 8.1868

Dual Military Picks exceed Military Axe in total damage by roughly 2.89%. However, you'd need two of them; having a Tigerhunter in the offhand won't exceed Great Axe damage:

Raging Axe w/ Military Pick + Tigerhunter:
[(24 + (45 * 0.30)) * 1.0 * 1.0] * 2 + [(22 + (45 * 0.30)) * 1.0 * 1.0] = 109 damage

Military Pick + Tigerhunter
6.4 TP per hit
Hits needed to reach 100 TP post-WS: 14 (7 attack rounds)
Time required: 56.23 secs
Damage done in 7 attack rounds: (24 * 7) + (22 * 7) = 168 + 154 = 322
WS damage: 109
Total damage: 431
Total damage/sec: 431/56.23 = 7.6649

Military Axe would outdamage Military Pick + Tigerhunter by roughly 3.8%. Thus, unless you're Dual Wielding two Military Picks, Great Axe is statistically better.

I've never even seen a Military Axe at the AH. I've seen the occasional Military Pick, but they are also ridiculously expensive.

I've seen Military Axes in Midgardsormr. I used one for my Promyvions. I believe it cost me about 70k, but that was months ago.

[Murphie]

Re: Great Axe...?

Well, I should add that I haven't looked lately. Once upon a time I didn't see them very much. They are a Garrison drop as well, if I'm not mistaken.

[Armando]

Re: Great Axe...?

As of now, there is one Military Axe up for sale on Midgardsormr's Jeuno AH. Two sold today, and they're going for 50k. There are 9 Military Picks (wow) for sale, one sold today, and three yesterday. They are going for roughly 400k.

Looks like Military Picks aren't even remotely rare nowadays on Midgardsormr, but you'd have to pay 800k for a pair. It basically comes down to wether or not you can afford to put out that much money for the weapons.

Oh, and yes, they do both drop from Garrisons (30-cap) though they may not drop from the same ones. The drop lists on Mysterytour are kinda incomplete, but it reports Military Pick dropping from both Derfland and Zulkheim, and Military Axe dropping from Zulkheim (no drop list for Aragoneu for some reason.)

[Lmnop]

Re: Great Axe...?

Valis ; ;

I meant I agreed with you. I think everyone turns Warrior into some sort of one trick rampaging pony (oh the mental images of cute ponies destroying cities). In this regard, I think people who one-dimensionalize it aren't doing it any honor. I never meant to imply that you were doing the dishonoring. I guess i've been coming off harsh a lot these last few weeks...

However, after stating this, I wanted to go on to share my account that oftentimes, we pigeonhole ourselves into /nin. It's very understandible why people love it so much. Survivability is actually very hard to come by in a game where soloing was practically taboo when the game first came out. /nin gives an amazing amount of just that - survivability. I won't argue. It saddens me but it's potent.

All told though, I still used greataxe majority of the time 'til 50. /nin or no, I just think it performs better.

@Feba: You know I don't like that you're not leveling Greataxe, but I really don't care, all the same. I know you're good at this game, I respect you.

Btw, i've had very dissapointing Greataxe results in the low 60s :/ I need to go back to the drawing board before I start posting about it but so far it's not looking too hot. Underwhelming Raging Rushes and DoT that isn't what it should be.

[Feba]

Re: Great Axe...?

quick scan of AH shows milatary axe and pick, both with three in stock, axe at about 200, pick at 400.


So yes, pick will be more expensive, but most likely WARs will not be using a military axe either.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Great Axe...?

Feba - in reply to your points...

1: You don't need Utsusemi to tank. No really. With a good support team, hitting enfeebs and the like early on in the fight.

2: I don't voke in a fight anyways. If I do voke, that means I'm tanking for the rest of that fight - regardless (even with using just breaks, my damage gives tanks headaches anyways).

3: So, you acknowledge that damage isn't everything - utility has purpose.

4: If they need breaks, they get breaks - even if they want Sturmwind. Plus - I use the whole War/Drg build and going for +haste with monster G. Axes. Which is usually a signifier that I'll be taking the debuff role on.

- Saeriel

[Freyr]

Re: Great Axe...?

Ninja should be left alone for the most part but Ninja when used as a sub should be nurfed. Ninja's are the new Ranger Pre-Nurf, Just throw as many /nin at the problem as possable. To fix this make it so ???/NIN get the same amount of shadows as a NIN/??? BUT Utsusemi triggers before Eva when subbed, unlike Eva before Utsusemi when used Nin/???.

[lionx]

Re: Great Axe...?

Go further ;i not 100% blinks. I am not in favor of most things with NIN since i feel it plays too much part in our game. Esepcially with Ni. Some people do not want nerfs and only buffs, but theres few things that you can buff up to the power of avoiding damage like that.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Great Axe...?

Now now gentlemen... we've gone from saying that the G. Axe is a good thing to calling out for nerfs.

Nerfing is never a good thing, and only serves to upset more people than it pleases.

- Saeriel.

[Freyr]

Re: Great Axe...?

Go further ;i not 100% blinks. I am not in favor of most things with NIN since i feel it plays too much part in our game. Esepcially with Ni. Some people do not want nerfs and only buffs, but theres few things that you can buff up to the power of avoiding damage like that.

Your idea or my idea not both that would be to much. Also I'm only saying this when you sub Ninja NOT when your main job is Ninja.

Now now gentlemen... we've gone from saying that the G. Axe is a good thing to calling out for nerfs.

Nerfing is never a good thing, and only serves to upset more people than it pleases.

- Saeriel.

G.Axe is better then Axe when you sub Ninja or not IMO. Im saying nurf ninja when subbed because it's over all game wise unbalanced.

1. When you go on a quest or mission and everyone but you is subbing ninja, even the mages, you know something is wrong.
2. When you see level 10 people running around with a ninja sub, you know something is wrong.
3. When people won't invite you as a damage dealer role without ninja, even tho the only weapons you can use in your class is two handers, you know something is wrong.
4. When there is a Mage tanking a god and is doing better then the Paladin, you know something is wrong.