War/mnk tank, level 74

[galkaBST]

Looking for some advice in gear for a galka war/mnk to tank at 74... here's what I was thinking-

Gawaines Axe
Bibiki Shell
Optical Hat (?)
Ryl. Knights Collar
Earring 1?
Fenrir's Earring
Unicorn Harness
War AF Gloves?
Jelly Ring?
Vit +4 ring?
Amemet +1 or Vit Back?
Warwolf Belt
Barone Pants (War AF Pants?)
War AF Feet?

I'm trying to balance attack gear with the obvious defense I'm going to need, and Im also aware that Im going to need at least some +enmity. I have access to everything listed above, is there anything Im missing? Is another +4vit worth not wearing a Jelly Ring? Any suggestions would be appreciated ^^. I'm mostly interested in trying this to see how well it can be done-- looking to be a meat tank w/ G Axe counter, I know I can do war/nin already ^^. Thanks in advance,

Gunslinger (Bismarck)

[Gaard]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

I'm going to assume we're talking about tanking XP mobs. My suggestions:

Head: Ohat has 0 def..... I'd use Tiger Mask, decent defense and +5 VIT. At 75, Genbu's Kabuto is a no-brainer.
Ear1: I'd go for attack. The -eva won't hurt you. Maybe +AGI (Drone)
Body: Unicorn might be good. I'd swap in Hauberk and see how it stacks up, though. Especially if you take my advice about not wearing the Ohat. You get your 10 acc back.
Hands: Definitely AF gloves!
Ring: Depends. If you're getting hit for less than 50 a pop, I would use +VIT. Over that, Jelly is probably a good idea.
Back: Amemet+1. You'll need the +attack.
Legs: AF pants. Better def, more enmity. Plus a little bit of acc.
Feet: AF!!!!!!!!

If any race can still do thisat 74, it's Galka... but at that level /NIN is really strong. Not sure why you want to do this, but good luck. Let us know how it goes! =D

[Ziero]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

War/mnk = Hella fun

With Aggresor, while using dodge, and Focus you have a constant acc buff with little to no penalties. I can see full break being the WS of choice and used at the start of each fight here.

[galkaBST]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

Thanks for the ideas, didn't even think about Tiger Mask and I have one on me for my steel cyclone macro anyway XD. To answer why I want to do it, besides fun, is be be as versitle as I can be, that and I believe that while nin will carry you everywhere with a dynamite support team, /mnk requires less faith in others (note this is not for any HNM stuff... I better damn well have my support team for that ). The other reason is since the new zones seem to be made to destroy ninja tanks (like fleas >.>), I think it leaves a real niche for war/mnk to take up exp tanking, not to mention being able to withstand AOE heavy mobs much better. Any other suggestions? I'm looking at this as a cross between a pld and a nin in terms of roles- Able to tank with little preasure on the mages, but still able to lend enough damage / debuffs to make the party successful.

[Lmnop]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

if you have the resources, I'd be interested in seeing how Fortitude Axe with this set up would stack up. And while you're at it, Brutal Earring >.> since DA trait stacks with the effect from Virtue Stone weapons. It seems like it'd allow you to actually get to toss out a full break every once in a while. Meh, you'd prolly end up soloing RR anyway.

[capitalistnihilist]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

Thanks for the ideas, didn't even think about Tiger Mask and I have one on me for my steel cyclone macro anyway XD. To answer why I want to do it, besides fun, is be be as versitle as I can be, that and I believe that while nin will carry you everywhere with a dynamite support team, /mnk requires less faith in others (note this is not for any HNM stuff... I better damn well have my support team for that ). The other reason is since the new zones seem to be made to destroy ninja tanks (like fleas >.>), I think it leaves a real niche for war/mnk to take up exp tanking, not to mention being able to withstand AOE heavy mobs much better. Any other suggestions? I'm looking at this as a cross between a pld and a nin in terms of roles- Able to tank with little preasure on the mages, but still able to lend enough damage / debuffs to make the party successful.

Yeah, fleas destroy NIN tanks but who in thier right mind exps off them? Utsusemi is still the #1 damage reduction spell/ability/whatever in the game even when exping in ToAU areas. My last NIN burn got chain #50+ in Bha. Thickets, so I dunno where you are getting the ludicrous idea that the new zones are bad for NIN or /NIN.


Furthermore, /MNK will certainly be more of a strain on your mages than /NIN would.

[galkaBST]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

I wouldn't say it's ludicrous to say that some of the new areas favor a pld tank (or even some of the old areas, for that matter). And you're right about the fleas, no one would exp off of them, mostly because a crit or WS will negate any exp. And I agree that Uts. is still the best way to reduce overall damage (Ive done tons of LS events and axe burns as bst/nin, not getting hit usually is the best way to avoid cures), but there are certain situations where I think /mnk would be more efficient. Last night I was pting on Imps and was making about 13k / hr with a 71 corsair in my party, the ninja tank was good, had all the gear he should be wearing, but still couldnt keep hate off of me or the Cor. When he did take hate, he was relying on minimal Uts. because the mobs were dying so fast. Why not be able to swap that nin out for a war/mnk who can hit a full break at the beginning and make it dead faster yet? It's not that Nin's cant do their job here, but I think a pld could do it just as effectively or more effectively (I don't even want to open a discussion about Nins not being able to do damage, it's not what I'm arguing. Just giving an example )

Like I said, /nin solo tanking takes an on-the-spot support team (especially for anything above EM, you know, stuff that will actually hit you), while /mnk would be more forgiving. What pops in to my head as an example would be mobs that spam ga type spells, some instances in Dynamis, and maybe some new assault missions. What I want to do is open a discussion for this job combo, and make myself as versatile as possible. I have thf and nin leveled, it's not a matter of not wanting to conform. That said, I'll probably still go on all my merit burns as /nin for sharing the hate, but in situations where I am required to keep hate and tank it solo without 2-3 mages to keep the mob undercontrol so I can cast, I'll go /mnk.

[galkaBST]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

Just thought I'd post an update to this, I went to the Pld forums for some more tanking advice and have continued the discussion over there. This thread has my results so far:

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/pal...ut.there-.html

Just wanted to keep it alive for anyone else interested in war/mnk late game.

Edit: Ps. My first test of it in a PT is at the bottom of the thread, the rest is advice about what to wear, etc.

[Kenki]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

The reason is that Nin/War can do good damage on their own. I have PTied with many of them as mnk and I can say that, they are no less than a War/Nin in an axr burn PT. In fact, I have met ninjas who out damaged my mnk/nin while tanking to keep hate, Blade Jins of over 800+.... I wish I could sub war >_>; Even with such super powerful boost in damage output and provoke, hate would still switch around like a tornado since if someone in the PT perform a 700~1k+ WS then it will pin hate on them (considering it's 1/4~1/3 of the mob's HP).

The PT setup was: Thf, nin and Mnk (me) for DD, brd/whn/rdm at the back. Thf had no reference on SATA, just pulling SA+WS or TA+WS whenever he gets TP or just solo the rest. Hate was flying around like mad, the Nin kept hate most of the time (60%), Thf (12%) and me (28%). chain up to #69 then #79 (we had a brake inbetween when the nin blew himself up). The ninja was doing awesome damage. I was confident that I (Mnk/Nin) can measure up to a War/Nin in an axe burn PT. I have PTied with one war who had Ridill and Adaman set (I think since it's blueish) - he out damaged me by 6% (me 25%, he 31%). This Nin is no less than a WarNin with Ridill - maybe a bit less since he's only 3% above me in damage.

War/Mnk are great at taking the heat but if you want to depend on them for keeping perfect hate.... I'm not sure if they can pull better damage than a full DD nin/war (melee). The nin in your PT was not a tank but rather as a DD, he uses minimal Uts. to reduce hate and HP drain. I find it hard to believe that a War/Mnk can do better damage than a DD nin/war over short kills. Provoke and Boost aren't going to measure up to the amount of hate generated from damage.

At lv74+ a tank can no longer keep hate 100% like the lv70 and below; melees became very powerful and even mages with merits will surely overpower anything. This is esp true in burn PTs or any PT that target VTs. You can notice this with evasive ninja and Pld. They tend to become the less favorable selection. Ninja turn into DD instead of evasive tanks while pld take a big hit. Traditional PT tend to have a thf or /thf, a good SC and a good blm to MB; even then the killing would be so fast that will favour the evasive manuver of Utsusemi.

It boils down into if a War/Mnk can do better than a Nin/War. As I have said before, a Nin/War can be no less than a War/Nin in pure Ramapage madness. This means that a War/Mnk must do better than War/Nin in pure Tp spam PT (or at least on part with). I used GA and A as war/nin (my GA is capped at lv72 XD) and from my experience, I can say that: War/Nin using axe in TP spam is better than War/Nin using GA. Noy sure how war/mnk will come out.

[Kakusaijin.]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

In reply to above, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I tank in a Haubergeon and Coral Earrings now. Trying to tank perfectly is just more than my sanity can handle. (Since like you said, it isn't possible in the prime conditions.)

[galkaBST]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

Maybe it has something to do with my gear then? Because when I was out with 2 other wars (one was maneater/woodsville, the other maneater/joytoy) I was holding hate just fine. The only exception to this is if they hit rampage right after the first voke-pull, and even then I was able to have it back and locked by the second voke. I'll see how it goes once I'm 75, and I'll keep this updated as a record of it. Honestly though, I cant see loosing hate every battle, short of the other warriors throwing on their AF and provoking along with a DD setup. I may have better luck with this because I already have some crit merits and they fire pretty frequently, and with great axe that's usually ~300 damage. Anyhow, Ill keep this updated as I progress.

[Kenki]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

With critical merit your average should be about 7~9% critical (that's 7~9 critical per 100 hits). I used a parser so I can tell how much of the natural critical hits we get (about 2~4%). Merit +4% critical and each critical with a very good GA can net us about 200~350+ Dmg.

Idk how your PT was doing but t have the 2nd provoke it means the battle last more than 30sec. Maybe you were fighting Golems? or something too tough? It wouldn't be strange to have battles last for only 30sec (maybe more or less) in a TP burn PT before you get another battle right after. It's like continuosly fighting non-stop but you get hate reset every 30~45sec.

Maybe it's your gear, maybe it's because of the other war are holding back or maybe you are actually doing more damage with the Great Axe? Btw, on your gear, I'd for go the Vit ring in favor of the Str Ring or maybe phalanx ring if you are lacking in Def (Ohat = 0 def)

[galkaBST]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

We were doing imps, and you're right, there wasnt often enough time for another voke ^^ (unless other member were running in from multiple pulls). My average great axe hit is ~100-150 damage, with crits doing 2-3Xs normal. My gear setup for the party was:

Bhuj +1
Bombcore
Optical hat
Ryl. Guard's Collar
Minuet Earring
Fenrir's Earring
Sipahi Jawshan
Barone Gloves (and Tarsque for testing hate ability)
2X +4 Vit Rings
Amemet +1 (also used Knightly Mantle for testing)
Warwolf Belt
AF pants / barone pants (was switching to test)
War AF feet

With this setup didn't have a lot of trouble keeping hate Vs most melee attacks, the other wars were in full haub, etc, with the weps I listed. I should probably also mention that I have Parry ~190, so that's why sometimes I throw on some parry gear for pts (like barone gloves). I'll post more later.

[Kenki]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

So that makes more sense. The key is short battle, it means that you are killing faster than there is a chance for hate to switch around to be noticable. Usually you will keep hate with the 1st provoke and 1~2 GA swings until roughly 50~60% HP then other melees unleash TP or just simply kill the imps. I don't find it rare for 1 WS to take out 50% of the monster HP if you're using GA.

One thing I'd ask though, would it be better just go all out DD and forget about your defence? You don't have to tank, War/Nins can turn hate around and tank perfectly fine without taking too much damage (if they take damage at all in a 30sec battle). That way you will increase the damage out put of the party thus you will have faster kills without being an MP sponge. The key to tanking is not about keeping hate but is about managing hate and conserve healing (but ultimately it's about staying alive until you kill the monster). As long as you can keep hate at the front line and don't lose too much HP it shouldn't matter if you are tanking or not.

note: did you check out the Berserker's Axe? The one with 95 Dmg for lv69. I believe that's one of the highest damage GA you can get on AH. Also, the [Sipahi Jawshan], I don't know how much of the critical hit % this armor increase but some said it's like 1% - imo it'd be better just to get Hauby (for pure DD) or AF fo tanking or Amadam Hauberk? Or maybe the Byrnie would be better?

[galkaBST]

Re: War/mnk tank, level 74

I was using Gawaines axe originally for the +5 vit, but went to the Bhuj +1 for the lower delay, Hp, vit, and dex. I've used Haubergeon, Hauberk, and Byrnie across my war and bst careers, but I'm currently using the new armors (critical to go along with my merits, I usually parse about 15-20% crit rate on my war), until I can get in my unicorn harness. I may go back to a haub eventually, but right now Im having no trouble keeping up in damage output.

I do have both /nin and /thf leveled and use them pretty often (sometimes I just dont feel like convincing people ), but my main reason for war/mnk is mobs that do AOE, etc, especially silence. War/mnk is just situational for me so far, just want to push it as far as I can, and see if it really can compete with war/nin, if properly geared and given enough attention. Chakra, counter, boost, and HP up have all been pretty nice so far, at least on the current mobs Im fighting.