Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

[Gaard]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

..Will people look down on me if I am using a spear as a warrior? I'll probably level warrior to 30 and then go dragoon is the only reason I'd use a spear...

What will you do when you get your DRG to 60? You'll need to level your WAR sub again (to 37). Are you still going to use a polearm?

When you unlock DRG, your DRG is level one, not level 30. You can skill up polearm just fine as you play DRG. From your OP, it seems that you know that polearm isn't the best weapon for a WAR. So why would you keep yourself gimpy on purpose?

[Macht]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

What will you do when you get your DRG to 60? You'll need to level your WAR sub again (to 37). Are you still going to use a polearm?

When you unlock DRG, your DRG is level one, not level 30. You can skill up polearm just fine as you play DRG. From your OP, it seems that you know that polearm isn't the best weapon for a WAR. So why would you keep yourself gimpy on purpose?

Well the WAR game design intent is for them to be a weapon's master of sorts, meaning that they are proficient in multiple weapons. Aside from Katana and Great Kanata WAR gets every other weapon skill there is in the game and has a decent list of weapons they can use in each one.

Once SE decides to do something to help better focus on this design they started WARs should be acceptable with more range of weapons to use then just GAxe and Axe. It is intresting when you think about it what possibilities they could do to give that aspect of WAR more power.

Otherwise for job original intent design... Yes WAR were originally made so you could use almost any weapon with them, the point were that design starts to fail is the closer you get to and pass 50. As a WAR if you are to play it as it's original intent I would go with a decent range of weapons, that way you can match a good WS to your SC partner to help produce some good damage.

[Gaard]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

...Once SE decides to do something to help better focus on this design they started WARs should be acceptable with more range of weapons to use then just GAxe and Axe....

Note the highlighted key words. S-E has stated that they plan to do this (and to be honest, I can't wait), but until they do it's not quite as acceptable.

...As a WAR if you are to play it as it's original intent I would go with a decent range of weapons, that way you can match a good WS to your SC partner to help produce some good damage.

Except that the damage isn't all that good. And good luck keeping up TP with your SC partner.

Bottom line: Shield Break and Sturmwind are too good to give up just because you're only using WAR as a stepping stone, or you think you need to be versatile at level 20 where you can't make up for a B skill with gear and/or merits. Tell the Distortion whores to go to hell, and buy an axe.

[Macht]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

Note the highlighted key words. S-E has stated that they plan to do this (and to be honest, I can't wait), but until they do it's not quite as acceptable.

Except that the damage isn't all that good. And good luck keeping up TP with your SC partner.

Bottom line: Shield Break and Sturmwind are too good to give up just because you're only using WAR as a stepping stone, or you think you need to be versatile at level 20 where you can't make up for a B skill with gear and/or merits. Tell the Distortion whores to go to hell, and buy an axe.

Your weapons skills vary very slightly at the lower levels, it's generally at the 50 mark and on were weapons rankings start to really hurt your efforts. So like I said does work, the points you were making I agree with as you reach the 50 mark. Before that those points hold less weight.

Since the OP was shooting for around 30-37 for using as sub it would suit his needs just fine instead of spending extra to go further in depth to detail everything to it out.

Plain and simple if you want to spend the time WAR is a great job for skilling nearly every weapon up to a nice spot, your choice on how you want to do it. Though for WAR his best weapons are the Axe and GAxe that have the highest rating and are much better idea to use as you approach the 50 and beyond mark.

[Gaard]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

....Plain and simple if you want to spend the time WAR is a great job for skilling nearly every weapon up to a nice spot....

Absolutely! But XP isn't the place to do that.

Here's what bugs me the most about this: the people who want to know if it's OK to use sword/shield, polearm, scythe, etc. are the ones who don't really care about the WAR job. They see it as a stepping stone, and I have no problem with that. But if that's the case why make your progress as a WAR take longer than it has to? Be efficient, and you can be done with your subjob that much quicker.

For example: My NIN is 37, and I'll probably never be convinced to take it to 75. I'm having trouble convincing myself to take it to 40 for BCNM use. It's a stepping stone because it's a useful and necessary sub to my WAR. But I wouldn't have equipped my NIN with daggers in order to shorten my dagger skillup sessions as a WAR. That would have only made levelling NIN more painful. Why would I do that to myself?

And if the OP ever decides to take WAR to 75 one day (which a lot of people seem to be doing nowadays....), he'll be posting another thread: "What's the best place to skill up GAxe at level XX?!" or "How do I beat maat with 1H axe?!" because his main skills are gimpy from underuse.

[nanatsu]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

Okay here's a story I'd like to tell you. I was in Garliage Citadel, fighting bats, leveling my war sub. I had spear leveled for my war and kept it leveled. I also kept great sword, scythe, great axe, and axe leveled to a respectable point during my stint to level 37.

Sturmwind always did great damage for me. I was consistently pulling off 150-180 Sturmwinds when both hits landed and Berserk was up. I soon learned that I was able to do about the same damage using Polearms and Double Thrust. How was I doing this? Choice of gear and food and taking advantage of the piercing bonus against flying types. Rice Dumplings gave me +5 accuracy with additional attack and str bonus. My weapon of choice was San d'Orian Halberd: 38 dmg, +3 accuracy outside of nation controlled area, 385 delay. I also had Royal Squire's Mufflers and Verner's Ring for an additional +5 accuracy. I coupled this with attack and str gear.

Now, my great axe choice at the time was Heavy Axe+1: 53 dmg. 489 delay.

Keep in mind that my polearm skill was not capped at all. In fact it was a good 5 levels behind cap. I still consistently pulled hate, and my highest Double Thrust was 184. Edit: But my typical double thrust damage was around 140-150. I was hitting anywhere from 40-55 normal hits. Very similar to my Great Axe performance.

Even when I used my polearm against beetles instead of bats, I was still doing respectable damage, because even at that level as long as you have some accuracy on, a B+ skill isn't going to matter much. I Know it's totally different the higher up you go, plus the fact that parties like to overhunt. But even against IT++ I was doing okay enough to want to keep my Polearm. The only reason I switched back to great axe is because of Shield Break, and well...because Shield Break is godly. But often I would Shield Break at the very start, then switch out to Polearm and double thrust when I had TP. Just because I could. And it was fun to do. It made me feel more like the weapon specialist that War is supposed to be. Even though the Great Axe had a lot more base dmg, polearm had a lot less delay, so my DoT didn't suffer terribly, and I still had to worry about hate in either case since I was playing DD war.

I realize my high numbers were mostly due to piercing dmg against flying types, but I wanted to put this out there. Take from it what you will. Even using spears on non flying types produced good numbers for me, and I was happy with my performance.

[Gaard]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

Okay here's a story I'd like to tell you. I was in Garliage Citadel, fighting bats .... using Polearms and Double Thrust. .... taking advantage of the piercing bonus against flying types.

Very similar to my Great Axe performance.... as long as you have some accuracy on, a B+ skill isn't going to matter much.

Of course it was similar. An automatic 25% bonus to your damage can do a lot for you. I'm not saying there is no situation where a polearm is a good idea. The OP wasn't asking about XPing on bats, but about XP in general.

If someone were to drag me out to Lufaise Meadows for a party, would I want to use axes? Probably not (there is a slashing damage penalty on Greater Birds). I'd prefer a Harpe/Joyeuse setup, using evisceration (piercing WS instead of a sword WS which are all slashing). But I have the gear (and merits) to support an unconventional weapon. Nobody has that at level 30, and rice dumplings are a very nice food but you can use them with axes too and get the same boosts.

Polearm is only a B skill, GS is B+

...I realize my high numbers were mostly due to piercing dmg against flying types, but I wanted to put this out there. Take from it what you will. Even using spears on non flying types produced good numbers for me, and I was happy with my performance.

I think armored mobs (beetles, crabs) are also weak to peircing damage. I'll have to check with some DRG and THF friends...

Once again, in your situation fighting a mob weak to piercing with a reasonable polearm skill isn't a bad idea. But the OP sounds like he wants that to be his ONLY weapon because he would rather not level axes for some reason. Completely different.

[ClydeArrowny]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

Crabs and beetles are neither stong nor weak to any weapons, except for a few exceptions, such as limbus crabs in weapon-weakness floor which is 100% immune to slashing.

[nanatsu]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

Of course it was similar. An automatic 25% bonus to your damage can do a lot for you. I'm not saying there is no situation where a polearm is a good idea. The OP wasn't asking about XPing on bats, but about XP in general.

Well I understood about the bonus from the start. I'm also saying though, that in exp in general? You can still put up good damage without an A ranked weapon. Enough to grab hate. Sure it's not as much as it would be with an A ranked weapon. I'm by no means advocating that. I know for certain that any performance you get with a B ranked weapon can be outdone by an A ranked weapon. And my performance with Polearm was outdone by my Great Axe. I pointed that out clearly. But even against mobs that didn't have a dmg bons to piercing I was doing respectable damage and keeping up with TP with the other melee.

Please note that I also realize that kind of thing won't last. Yes Great Axe and Axe is better. Yes the OP probably will get some grief and get looked down upon for trying to use anything but that. I had people give me funny looks for pulling out a spear before I threw out my first full TP Double Thrust. But from level 1-40, a B ranked weapon honestly isn't that far behind an A ranked weapon. The gear and food to backup a B ranked weapon is out there and easily accessible to the average player. As long as the skill is capped, you don't need much accuracy and attack to bring it up to par.

Keep in mind that I am well aware that your performance would be even better if you supported your A ranked weapon with the accuracy and attack gear and food, but my point was that at lower levels a polearm isn't really that bad. It's actually quite good. Double Thrust is better than a lot of ws out there. Even though Shield Break is enough of a perk to favor Great Axe over Polearm.

Having said that, unless the OP really does want people to give him grief over his weapon choice, and if he doesn't want to take the time to get the gear and food to backup the polearm, then he should stick to axes. I personally didn't encounter much resistance. But I did my research and worked hard to be a good DD and no one complained because I was doing the damage I was supposed to do. Or it could've just been blind luck I didn't meet much resistance. In any case, doing anything other than the expected norm is asking for trouble in the game, bottom line.

[Jenifa]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

and if everyone in PT uses B weapons then it will be a gimped PT with gimped XP.

why should peolpe choose to gimp themselves and other PT members.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

I started out playing WAR, doing similar things to the OP. I couldn't decide whether I wanted to be a PLD or DRK down the road. I hadn't really even considered staying a WAR. So I used Scythe for DD, and did Sword/Shield or Axe/Shield when tanking.

I took a break from WAR when I hit level 32, and then pursued PLD until I reached level 24. It was at this point that I decided I should at least take WAR to level 37, so I would "cap" it as a subjob.

And that's when it happened.

I fell in love with WAR. Considering my GAxe skill was a whopping 0 at that point, it was really tough. It's hard to find skill up parties before coffer key hunts in the mid 50s. Occasionally, you can find a 100 to 150 skill up party that's also doing G1 item farming. But before that point? Forget it.

If you happen to take DRK to end game first, then you at least have the option to use DRK to solo level GAxe up to where you have WAR. But you won't be able to do that as DRG, PLD, SAM, etc.

I say, make it easy on yourself. Level GAxe as you level WAR, so that the option to return to it is a much easier task to undertake.

[nanatsu]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

and if everyone in PT uses B weapons then it will be a gimped PT with gimped XP.

why should peolpe choose to gimp themselves and other PT members.

Whatever. I just finished partying as 37 DRK/WAR today with my B-rated Greataxe. I outdamaged even the great axe using war. Sturmwind for around 180 most of the time if boths hits connect. With Cor buffs on I easily broke 200. This was without having to bust out Souleater. Compare that to the dmg of Nightmare Scythe and Slice and get back to me. B rated weapons aren't the bane of the world at low levels. Geez.

[Armando]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

Whatever. I just finished partying as 37 DRK/WAR today with my B-rated Greataxe. I outdamaged even the great axe using war. Sturmwind for around 180 most of the time if boths hits connect. With Cor buffs on I easily broke 200. This was without having to bust out Souleater. Compare that to the dmg of Nightmare Scythe and Slice and get back to me. B rated weapons aren't the bane of the world at low levels. Geez.

I'd go as far as saying Great Axe is a DRK's best weapon for a good part of the game, especially since they can use Axe Belt with WAR sub. But that's mainly because Great Axe DPS and WS are so freakin' great. Hard Slash, Freezebite, Nightmare Scythe, and Slice are ok, but just "meh."

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

The irony of the GAxe wielding DRK anecdote is that it supports the notion that WARs should use GAxe -- not simply because it is our A+ weapon, but because it truly does rock.

[Karinya]

Re: Hate to be annoying, but weapon question

At lower levels, there are times when a B weapon will outperform an A weapon - either because of a damage type bonus, or because the A weapon has weaker weaponskills. THF below 34 is a classic example - *most* don't use their A weapon and even consider it gimp before Viper Bite. The higher level you go, though, the bigger the attack and acc difference gets, and after 60, there are WS access problems to deal with too.

However, there's a big difference between using a spear on bats and using it on everything. As has been repeatedly pointed out on this thread, great axe weaponskills rock. A lot. Not having access to them if the situation calls for it *is* a bad idea for a DD WAR. Carrying a spear is fine, and there are situations where you will want to use it, but you should always have a great axe and reasonably good skill with it, whether or not you have other weapons too. (If I can remember that far back, I think I carried a greatsword for Distortion, used axe and shield when I needed to tank, but mostly I loved great axe.)


Anyway, you don't need to pre-level a weapon skill before starting an advanced job. You started from 0 skill in your first job *and* without the stats, HP and abilities of a subjob and still did fine, didn't you? And probably couldn't afford as good gear and food as you can starting your advanced job, with a level 30 to do your farming with. So you can start your advanced job from 0 skill and do fine with it - samurais and ninjas do. Any job that uses one weapon all the time will be capped by the time you leave Valkurm.