opinions on how to tank

[Crode]

I just want to know how other ppl tank and their equipment. I Provoke every 30 sec. Only lvl 21 so I use Bettle Armor, Bone Pick +1, Silver rings, Bone Earrings, A Bandana that gives +5 or 6 HP and some other odd stats. Can't remember the rest of my armor but it has to something like +2 - 5 agil and hp. Hopefully I can learn something from you people too.

[DrivenTooFar]

Re: opinions on how to tank

When I tanked as a warrior, I picked up equipment that upped my strength because in order to hold hate well as a War you need to do lots of damage. Trade in that Bone Pick for a Neckchpper (GAXE) and find yourself a Spike Necklace too. Make sure you pick up some Meat Mithkabobs also. Provoking every 30 seconds is a great idea as long as there are no other tanks. Sometimes when tanking with another War I would trade the hate back and forth but whatever your comfortable with should work. Keep in mind also that I am a Hume so you may need opinions from other people if you are a different race. I hope this helped and good luck with your tanking.

[Crode]

Re: opinions on how to tank

Thanks and yes it'll help alot, altough I really don't know what the Meat Mithkabobs do or how to obtain them. Could you help in this area as well please. thanks again

[neighbortaru]

Re: opinions on how to tank

meat mithkabobs (AH: Food>Meals>Meats) is an attack food, for tanking, i would not really recommend them. instead, look for defense foods (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/food.php).

if you are the primarary tank, the main goal is to hold hate - so your other, less sturdy party members can do their thing. Your second goal is to minimize damage taken - so you don't die and you don't waste too much of the healer's MP (longer chains).

At 21 your main hate keeping tools are provoke, boost and your weapon. A cycle you should be getting yourself into is: Provoke, wait 15, Boost, wait 15 and Provoke. This, and your weapon swings, does wonders for keeping hate. As Driven said, picking up a GA wouldn't hurt either, but that trades extra defense + shield blocks for damage. Your choice. Definately get the spike necklace though.

For your second goal, you'll have to rely mostly on melee defense foods. They are pricey, but worth it. Refer to the link above and get what you can afford. don't go for the high end stuff yet, you won't get the full use out of it. VIT+ gear will help too.

you might also want to check out imac's excellent guide over on the PLD forum.

[Deviantkat]

Re: opinions on how to tank

I'm oldschool about WAR tanking. If you ask me, sub MNK, eat defense food, kick on defender and simply spam provoke and boost until the mob is dead. That's all there is to it, although you'd think that its not even possible with the way people hype WAR/NIN as the be-all do-all job of the 21st century >.>

Anyone who claims a WAR/MNK can't tank obviously has never seen a good one. Anyone who claims a WAR/NIN can tank better than a WAR/MNK obviously hasn't seen a good WAR/MNK either. Actually, anyone who claims a WAR/NIN can tank period needs their head checked (unless they have THF backup, but that's cheating =P). Yeah, a PLD will hold hate better, but its not that hard to keep hate rock solid though all but the largest of spikes (If you're good at it, you can manage to hold on to hate through Ancient Magic busts, most of the time), but a WAR/NIN simply doesn't grab hate like a WAR/MNK can. Yeah, both PLDs and NINs will take less damage too, but WARs have the option of debuffing the mob through the great axe break skills and generally deal better damage over time even with defender active than a PLD can. More often than not, WAR/MNK beats out even PLD/WAR for HP (and thus are safer vs. those nasty huge-attack mobs such as spiders etc.) and can counter hits in the place of getting partial shield blocks.

The key to really doing a good job of WAR/MNK tankng is really very simple. I'm surprised so few people are good at it. As I said, just spam provoke and boost. Much like neighbortaru explained, provoke, then boost, wait 15 seconds, boost again, wait 15 seconds, provoke, boost, rinse and repeat until the mob is dead. Once you get to level 35 and have access to the Warcry ability, save this for an emergency hate pull. If someone pulls hate off you somehow, use warcry and I can almost guarantee the mob will be beating on you again before you can say 'flapjack.'

In my opinion WAR/MNK is far underused nowadays. No one remembers how to do it right anymore. All you young'ns that grew up in the WAR/NIN generation just never caught on. =P

[Jei]

Re: opinions on how to tank

I would go with defense food as well. Ideally IMO is to replace all STR with VIT when you are main tank. It doesn't happen often enough for me to want to carry around VIT gear tho.

I tanked in a fw JP PTs, latest being level 51 tanking beetles. I knew right away when the PT was forming because 2 other melee were DRK and THF xD So I just basicly grab a few gear with the highest defense I can wear and wear them. Eat fish chiefkabobs and that's that. And there's defender that you can basicly keep it active all the time because it lasts as long as it's recast time.

Warrior's AF is a decent tanking gear, if you need to tank at all.

[Deviantkat]

Re: opinions on how to tank

Definately Jei. Aim to pump your defenece and VIT as high as possible. Use the best deense gear your can get your hands on. An important point to note is that every point of defense you get is worth more than the last. As you raise your defense score higher, you take exponentially less damage from attackers.

I'm one of those WARs who actually does carry around a bunch of tanking gear just for those rare occasions. I enjoy it when I get the chance. It's really worth have the proper gear for it too, I have to say.

[Lmnop]

Re: opinions on how to tank

most people aren't even eating food until somewhere in the 30s, what food you eat shouldn't matter too much. I would ditch the silver rings for Either +dex, vit, or str rings. Really, they all have their merits. Dex = hitting = your biggest source of hate. Str = damage = your best source of hate. Vit = not taking as much damage = keeping hate the longest.

Personally, I'd eat cheap attack food at your level and only flip on defender when the MPs are low. And yea, Greataxe. when you get Sturmwind, tell Sturmwind to shove it and try to start your fights with shield break. If your other melees connect 4 extra hits a fight because of shield break's effects, you've already outdamaged Sturmwind.

I never tanked with axe/shield, so I can't make much suggestions. I think it's better than greataxe, sturmwinding warriors, but shield break > all. at the end of the day though, I'd say just use 1 handed axe if that's what you have skilled up, it's good stuff.

misc 1) don't eat meat mithkabobs. they are expensive and don't even give good buffs in qufim levels. I would probably suggest meat jerky which you can buy from an NPC in bastok mines (bat's something or other Inn) and northern san d'oria (phoenix perch maybe? or some NPC near that area). Should be able to buy them for about 150ish gil each which rocks for as much attack as they give. You can also buy boiled crayfish or boiled crab (defense foods) from an NPC but I'm not sure where they are located.

misc 2) like has been stated before, boost has a 15 second recast. it won't increase your damage very much, but it pulls hate just activating. so pull comes in, you voke + boost => 15 seconds => boost => 15 seconds => voke + boost => boost => etc.

[Deviantkat]

Re: opinions on how to tank

If you're tanking with WAR/MNK, hate is definately not your main souce of hate. That might be so with WAR/NIN, but as WAR/MNK you act a lot more like a PLD. Boost and voke provide WAY more hate than your damage does. Warcry far beyond even those. THat theory might apply to WAR/NIN tanking but it really doesn't apply to WAR/MNK at all.

Not to say anything Lmnop said is untrue, but I'm pointing out that it only applies to a certain case of WAR tanking.

It's just in my experience, I could wear no accuracy or STR gear at all, hardly land any damage, and hold hate just fine while taking very little damage. Still more damage done than a PLD, but certainly no DD.

[Karinya]

Re: opinions on how to tank

(Note: The reasoning behind many of these statements has been edited out for length.)

I really don't know why warrior tanking has fallen into disuse even on servers with tank shortages. When you look at all the +enmity gear available now that wasn't around pre-Zilart (when I hear warrior tanks were pretty common), it seems like warriors should tank better now than they ever have before - and certainly many people got to 60+ with no ninjas. Unless there was a PLD in *every* party, that means WAR/MNK could tank even without Hercules ring, Merman ring, Eris earrings and other enmity gear available today. The one-handed AF weapon and enmity on AF armor certianly seem to support this idea.

WAR/NIN is a good backup tank to set up SATA, but it lacks the endurance and hate control to main tank. MNK is the best SJ for WAR tanking - more HP, more VIT, and most importantly, Boost and Counter.

Damage has some importance to a WAR tank, but I didn't find it to be my main source of hate (up to 37). Provoke, boost and warcry are the main sources of hate. WS is up there too. Dodge helps a little - use it early in a tough fight to get a bit more hate *and* take a bit less damage. You can berserk right before a boost+WS for a significant hate bonus but be sure to cancel berserk after the WS or you will get murdered.

You can also use equipment swap macros to put on more +STR and Attack for WS, then switch back into your Def/VIT/whatever. Don't swap out your enmity when doing this though.

As far as equipment priority: first of all, I would highly recommend an axe and shield. One handed weapons do less damage per hit than two handed weapons, but because of lower delay, it is not that much less over time; furthermore it is more consistent. Shields can reduce the damage you take a lot, especially when you block special attacks. Among one handed weapons, axes generally have the best damage/delay and better WS, and warriors have a better skill cap in axes than in other one-handed weapon types.

Stats to look for on WAR tanking gear:
+Enmity - Increases the amount of hate you get from everything you do. Get as much as you need to keep hate. +Enmity is the most effective way for gear to help you keep hate.
Defense - Very important. Reducing the damage you take is the second priority for a tank, after making sure that you are being attacked instead of someone more vulnerable.
VIT - Most useful against fast/double attacking mobs, but has some use against any mob.
STR - Since you are probably using an axe and shield; STR is more important for HTH and one-handed weapons.
Accuracy - There are varying opinions on the usefulness of +accuracy. But you definitely get much less hate from missing than from hitting.
Attack - Useful, but not as high a priority as some other stats.
Evasion - WAR won't evade much even with a lot of evasion gear (this is one of the reasons WAR/NIN isn't a good tank).
+Parry skill, +Shield skill - These are rather rare, but fairly useful when you do find them. +Counter would fall into this category too, if you can find some that isn't MNK only.
AGI - Affects evasion, block and parry rates, but the effect is rather small.
DEX - Small effect on accuracy and critical hit rates.
+HP - Don't be fooled by high prices; for normal tanking, the effect of this stat is negligible. It's primarily useful on HNM.

[Deviantkat]

Re: opinions on how to tank

Well put.

[Hitokami]

Re: opinions on how to tank

I dont think this was mentioned, but using berserk and canceling it right away was always a trick of mine I like to work in. Im not sure if it adds hate or not but it is also useful for ws Sturmwind and then cancel. I also get annoyed when leveling my 24 war and being asked, "no /nin?" sorry, but main tanking is soooo much easier with boost and counter.

[Tomatoes]

Re: opinions on how to tank

I think a lot of it depends on the mob you are fighting, as well as your support cast. If you are in a PT with a lot of firepower, then WAR/NIN > WAR/MNK imo, since the mob should close to dead by the time shadow #6 gets eaten (I'm talking about LV20-40). Keeping hate isn't the only issue at stake here. The more damage you take, the less potential you have for hitting chain4/5. Also, half the time you PT these days, the person pulling hate off you subs /NIN. This is where Counter, Dodge < Utsusemi. I know it sounds a bit unpleasant to old school WAR/MNKs (I know, as I went that path with Elvaan), but I think /NIN really is more optimal in good PTs.

Of course, I acknowledge some of the problems with it. The most popular areas for the OP to level in are filled with Double Attack mobs (mandies in jungles, bats in citadel, crawlers). Even I had a rough time with /NIN on Taru, despite swapping +STR when shadows were up and Kampf set/Verve Rings when shadows were down. Double Attack + Critical + Mob WS, very unpleasant. But with good PT planning (ie. forming your own PT instead of waiting for that random invite to CN), /NIN beats /MNK imo. And having a THF isn't cheating, it's teamwork! So do yourself a favor when possible, regardless of your subjob and:


Grab a DD that can support tank also.

Choose a good levelling area.
Typical Path:
Qufim: Greater Pugil (LV 28-30)
Kazham: Yuhtunga Mandragora (LV 30-33)
Kazham: Yhoatoar Mandragora (LV 35-37)
Sauromugue: Evil Weapon (LV 36-38)
Garlaige: Siege Bat (LV 40-43)
Garlaige: Borer Beetle (LV 41-44)
CN: Worker Crawler (LV 40-44)
CN: Nest Beetle (LV (45-47)
CN: Soldier Crawler (LV 47-49)

Here are some alternatives (Mob's LV indicated):
Korroloka: Clippers (LV 29-32)
Kazham: Goblin Furrier (LV 32-37)
Kazham: Sahagin (LV 34-38)
East Altep: Sand Beetle (LV 36-40)
Norg: Iron Shell (LV 37-40)
Eldieme: Gazer (Gazer 41-43)
???
Yhoator: Tonberry (45-49) (Tonberry hate, I know, but these are fun ^^)

*info taken from mysterytour.

Load up or swap in healthy WAR stats.
Stat-wise, I pretty much agree with Karinya. Although, I don't know how much +Enmity is manageable pre-AF, especially for people like me that often miss events. T.T

[Deviantkat]

Re: opinions on how to tank

I think a lot of it depends on the mob you are fighting, as well as your support cast. If you are in a PT with a lot of firepower, then WAR/NIN > WAR/MNK imo, since the mob should close to dead by the time shadow #6 gets eaten (I'm talking about LV20-40). Keeping hate isn't the only issue at stake here. The more damage you take, the less potential you have for hitting chain4/5. Also, half the time you PT these days, the person pulling hate off you subs /NIN. This is where Counter, Dodge < Utsusemi. I know it sounds a bit unpleasant to old school WAR/MNKs (I know, as I went that path with Elvaan), but I think /NIN really is more optimal in good PTs.

I can acknowledge this. It's not always the case, but for fast VT chaining parties a WAR/NIN tank (or 2 working together) can be very effective. There are a couple of particular reasons for this:

1) Shadows get eaten much slower by VTs than by ITs or higher.
2) Even when taking hits, VT do not do nearly as much damage as ITs or higher.
3) If the monster can die that fast, you hardly need a tank anyway.

You have to admit this is a special case of a party... Most parties aren't this effective aside of statics who have their combat tactics worked out very well. Random parties often just dont have the setup, the communication, the experience and/or the organization to make this work as well. I can't say it doesn't happen, but from my experience this kind of speed in a random party isn't all that common.

[Tomatoes]

Re: opinions on how to tank

Kat, I agree, but it might be more common than you think. These days many players are levelling 3rd or 4th jobs and are pretty well versed in their roles. These last couple months I've been knocking down my subjobs one by one. I've done THF to 40 twice, WAR to 40, NIN to 40, and working on NIN again, as well as SAM. All of it has been in pickup PTs, about half of which were able to hit chain4 repeatedly, and chain5 occasionally (often lost chain due to lack of mobs rather than need for rest).

edit: this is IT chaining, not VT >.>