Ridill - Hidden Effect?

[Sturm]

Alright, I have been lucky enough to lay my hands on this sweetheart. Thanks to our LS for the continued help in camping the flamethrowing nastiness.

Anyway, now after having some time to test it out, I came to a rather unpleasant observation. With Ridill equipped in both main- or offhand, the double attack rate of the respective other hand drops by a lot (latest parsing examples about 60%). That is quite noticable even with Double attack merrits pumped up.

Examples:
-------------
20 Rampages with Ridill in offhand, Axe in mainhand resulted in only one Rampage returning 16+% TP (e.g. Double attack kicked in).

20 Rampages with 2 axes equiped resulted in 9 Rampages returning 16% or even 17% TP return meaning one or even two double attacks kicked in.

Did anyone else using Ridill in off- or mainhand notice that effect?

[Uroboros]

Um, in a word, no.

I merited Aggressor, not Double Attack, so your mileage may vary. Also I usually use Ridill/Joyeuse so it's not like I'll notice. Awesome weapon regardless, grats!!

[Sock]

Mayhaps it has something to do with Ridills lower delay than your Axe?

Also, does Ridill drop from Nidhogg, or Fafnir?

[Ivadell]

Ridill only drops from Fafnir onry. And for the double attack thing, I used to have a Joy sword, and noticed the same thing. I think though it may be from the fact that Double attack trait and the weapons numerous attacks don't stack, and some of the Traited Double attacks may be mistaked for the weapons, and vice versa. If any of that makes any sense.

[Sock]

How rare is the drop? I've only seen it once. Ridill is the only HNM drop I want, I'd like to know what my chances of getting it are.

[ZQM]

My LS is 3 of....70-80something (Two of which were on back to back kills).

We haven't gotten one in nearly half a year either :\ We don't kill him daily, only when he's in NA time...but we don't have much competition since we're basically the only NAs that can take him down on my server.

[Sturm]

Yup pretty rare drop from Fafnir only. I'd estimate like 5% chances for a drop.

Anyways, I did some more testing - especially on multi-hit axe WS with - naturally - an axe in the main hand and ridill in the off hand.

Results are quite noticable...I have been using the same equipment during all the tests, so that doesn't screw the results. Also all the tests have been made with a lvl 4 double attack merrit trait on the same enemies too (aura statues and pots in Ru'Aun gardens)

27 Rampages with Ridill in Off hand. 3 of them resulted in a TP gain > 15% (11% multi hit kick in [Base 5 hit WS])

27 Rampages with 2 axes equipped (Woodviles and Juggernaut). 12 of them resulted in a TP gain > 15% (44% Multi hit kick in [Base5 hit WS])

So yeah, I am pretty sure Ridill in offhand reduces the chance for triggering double attack on your main hand. Don't get me wrong, I like the Ridill - but that effect is just plain ... you figure.

Now, the next step I am gonna analyze is the overall damage dealt within an hour exping using:

- Juggernaut / Woodvile in main hand and Ridill offhand
- Woodvile main hand and Juggernaut off hand.

Stay tuned ...

Oh and @ Ivadell: That makes sense. But in this case I wear Ridill off hand and calculate the number of double attacks in main hand during a multi hit WS, only. So the "perception" factor is pretty much a non issue.

[Tomatoes]

Is Double Attack linked to any other factor by any chance? Perhaps weapon skill level?

[ZQM]

My theory is....

If Ridill's double or triple attack proct, then the trait doesn't proct. The trait only procts of Ridill doesn't proct. Ridill's proct ofcoarse doesn't work on weaponskills. However, the computer still sees if Ridill procts or not when you use a weaponskill, so if it does you cannot have the trait go off and if it does it won't affect Rampage. So basically

>Weaponskill is used
>Computer checks if Ridill procts
>If it procts, WS happens and you cannot have a double attack on your offhand.
>If it doesn't proct, computers checks if the trait procts. If the trait procts, double attack happens on the offhand.


And just one thing

27 Rampages with 2 axes equipped (Woodviles and Juggernaut). 12 of them resulted in a TP gain > 15% (44% Multi hit kick in [Base5 hit WS])

A full hit Rampage with two Axes is 16% TP.

6 (Mainhand) + 6 (Offhand) + 4 (Remaining hits=16

[Sturm]

My bad in the equoatation, but I guess you got the point. Ridill offhand = less chance for double attacks in your WS (in this example Rampage) Annoying if you ask me...

[Ivadell]

Double Attack I think is based on AGI, so maybe wear S. Kote's and see if that helps?

[Icemage]

(1) Sturm's sample size is too small to draw conclusions from.

(2) WAR has lower accuracy(skill) with Sword than 1H Axe, therefore the extra double attack hit with Ridill will naturally miss more often than with Woodville/Juggy. I would credit this for the lower TP return -> it may well be that you're simply whiffing more often. To "un-taint" your data, you would need to test with another sword, NOT an axe.


Icemage

[kazuri]

Originally posted by Ivadell
Double Attack I think is based on AGI, so maybe wear S. Kote's and see if that helps?

Sorry but I belive this isn't true.

[Uroboros]

Originally posted by Icemage
(1) Sturm's sample size is too small to draw conclusions from.

(2) WAR has lower accuracy(skill) with Sword than 1H Axe, therefore the extra double attack hit with Ridill will naturally miss more often than with Woodville/Juggy. I would credit this for the lower TP return -> it may well be that you're simply whiffing more often. To "un-taint" your data, you would need to test with another sword, NOT an axe.


Icemage

I hit 90%+ at 75 with Ridill/Joyeuse, so ummm, yeah, by the time you actually get a Ridill your acc should no longer be an issue. Rid/Joy TP blows Woods/Jugg away. I'm yet to test the original topic myself but I mean to the next time I'm going to be passing the time killing stuff for too long, like say an Aspidochelone camp or something.

[Ivadell]

Sorry but I belive this isn't true.

actually I think it has been proven by one of the most hooked-up Warrior's on Bahamut. So I'll believe him. And plus the Relic Boots have +AGI on them, why else would a Warrior need AGI?