something that's been on my mind (/mnk)

[kuu]

It depends what you tank. Shadow raping monsters will make short work of War/nins

It also depends on the length of time one needs to tank and how much support.

Something like War/nin + Mnk/nin + Rng/nin = Not tanking long.

Personally I wouldn't look at war/mnk for anything. The have no situational Hate stealing/ stopping methods like A Pld or no damage even hate like Nins (might change with update)

You have a lot of JAs, but no matter how many JAs you can't steal hate back very easily, you build it back, and at same time you take damage.

If you're going to do hate passing around, I rather get a War/nin who is a situational tank.

At 74+ and DDs do so much damage, it's not even JAs anymore, it's whoever does WS = tank.

That's usually how you end up with chain 21 or something heh.

[Uroboros]

Originally posted by Starv
What? The taru is the 2nd back-up tank?

Feel free to compare HP/MP pools amongst the PLDs.

Posted by kuu
It depends what you tank. Shadow raping monsters will make short work of War/nins

Hmm. Hmm.

[Jei]

Originally posted by Starv
If so, why do you never see mithra PLD's tanking HNM's?
I used to think the same thing, but they must account for something.

I don't think mithra looks that good in crimson/AF. The armor looks so much better on hume/elvaan/galka/taru. And yea how I look is more important than my stat ;D Many ppl think this way too.

[Starv]

ANY mithra AF is good ;p

Wow, that is quite impressive. Anyway I didn't say taru PLD was bad.

So do you still stand by your comment that Race means nothing? Or was that meant only with warrior tanking?

[kuu]

Hmm. Hmm.

So what does kiting a NM have to do wether one should be war/nin war/mnk or another job?

Almost any job at those levels Can ichi ichi ni. And your byakko shot, is using a and a shield and a earth staff.... That's like....nvm, it's just funny to see it.

The comment was for xping, where there is no one to take your place, and time matters. If a weapon takes 3 shadows from you, from whirl, you're screwed.

[Uroboros]

Originally posted by kuu So what does kiting a NM have to do wether one should be war/nin war/mnk or another job?

Those screens are not of kiting.

byakko shot, is using a and a shield and a earth staff.... That's like....nvm, it's just funny to see it.

I'm more experienced on Byakko than the other tank and I have a Ridill, and I also happen to think Earth Staff sucks. I don't tank anything with Earth Staff.

The comment was for xping, where there is no one to take your place, and time matters. If a weapon takes 3 shadows from you, from whirl, you're screwed.

Wait, so you're saying weapons are a bigger threat to shadows than say, Byakko or Charybdis? I barely even reblink on weapons, I just put Ni up everytime it's ready and just eat hits the rest of the time, they hit me for ~70-140 and I have 1400 hp in EXP build, they're not going to approach killing me before they die. This is in chain 22-26 weapon exp for 10k+ an hour so feel free to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

[kuu]

Wait, so you're saying weapons are a bigger threat to shadows than say, Byakko or Charybdis? I barely even reblink on weapons, I just put Ni up everytime it's ready and just eat hits the rest of the time, they hit me for ~70-140 and I have 1400 hp in EXP build, they're not going to approach killing me before they die. This is in chain 22-26 weapon exp for 10k+ an hour so feel free to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Yes, because a pt is limited to 6, and doing normal style fighting. Not a kite type, where in the screenie I saw a whole bunch of mages, and 1-2 melee.


And now you're just boasting strutting weird numbers. Unless you have a 4 ranger pt(and even then), it's very hard to do chain more 11 or so on weapons. I've tried, almost lost a rdm with long range pulling in middle of fights. There's just not enough of them spawning close by.

Maybe on the 1st time through you can pull off a chain 22(did something like that a few times for fun), but not after.

And I have tanked weapons, just the same, with a war eva of 235, You don't evade for crap, and wars will always evade for crap. ichi ichi ni is raped within the 1st 30 seconds, assuming you have that many given the speed one needs to pull. And if you have melees(you have to to get high chains, mages don't have the mp to walk around with you) It will whirl in the 1st 20 seconds.

The up side to this is all melees should over hate a War very very fast. So in the end YOUR NOT TANKING. You can tank with Ni because that's the longest you have hate for.

If a war had tanked weapons, as you say, then you would of gotten smited down to yellow looooong ago. Don't put out the "I'm L33t so I must be right card" It's so....

[Russta]

Originally posted by kuu
If a war had tanked weapons, as you say, then you would of gotten smited down to yellow looooong ago. Don't put out the "I'm L33t so I must be right card" It's so....

Why not? It's certainly the one I feel being played by you with every post you make.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by kuu
And now you're just boasting strutting weird numbers. Unless you have a 4 ranger pt(and even then), it's very hard to do chain more 11 or so on weapons.

That's cuz you're in a RNG PT. Bring MNKs and WARs on weapons.

I've done COUNTLESS exp pts getting over 20+ and I know Lum has the same. Want to know how many of them were RNG PTs? None, zero, zip. Bring some blinged out MNKs and WARs, one RNG for acid bolts (WARs can do it worse comes to worse), and just let them go hog wild.

ichi ichi ni is raped within the 1st 30 seconds,

If the mob isn't dead in 30 seconds in a level 75 EXP PT, you're doing something wrong.

(you have to to get high chains, mages don't have the mp to walk around with you)

Make your mage pull. That's another reason you're not getting chain 20+ often, mage should be pulling while melee are killing. And I've been in PTs with 5 melees, 1 WHM and the WHM still pulled, so don't give me that "they need MP" bullshit. If your melees know how to actually blink and the mage knows how to conserve MP, there's never a MP problem.

The up side to this is all melees should over hate a War very very fast. So in the end YOUR NOT TANKING.

Well no shit. The person who WSs is the tank in that fight.

I find it funny though that you word it as "should over hate a WAR very very fast," as if WAR's can't get hate for shit...:x

If a war had tanked weapons, as you say

So now you're saying a WAr can't tank weapons? Fuck, I tanked weapons at lv70 with only Utsusemi:Ichi.

Just curious, what job are you? From the sounds of it, you're making yourself out to be a WAR, but I'm kinda doubting it...

[Uroboros]

Originally posted by kuu
[B]Yes, because a pt is limited to 6, and doing normal style fighting. Not a kite type, where in the screenie I saw a whole bunch of mages, and 1-2 melee.

Like, but those aren't kited fights. We don't kite anything but Kirin and Gration sometimes. Those screens clearly show people standing still so stop saying 'kited.' Also ranger is a 'melee' and they don't' need to be up in the mob's grill hitting it with daggers for 2 damage so Byakko can claw me in the face more often.

For reference, kiting looks like this, tanking looks like this.

And now you're just boasting strutting weird numbers. Unless you have a 4 ranger pt(and even then),

Would it be 'strutting weird numbers' to say that I've not been outdamaged by a RNG in exp since I got a Joyeuse, and since I got Ridill I totally blow them all away? This includes a Kriegsbeil/Fransisca/STR+50/Obow RNG doing Slugshots for 1500-2000 on decos. They've got WS on lock and they win on damage for that particular mob when they have Barrage up but on overall DOT over the course of a party WAR/NIN and MNK/WAR both outdamage RNG. The only way RNG pulls ahead again is STR RNG with Kraken. Do you know a lot of those? I know 3.

Maybe on the 1st time through you can pull off a chain 22(did something like that a few times for fun), but not after.

My LS merit pts pull off chain 22 over and over again on decos, sometimes 26 when Auras are kind and wander near the 'walls,' the only thing that stops us is other parties. We typically have our bards pull (they elegy, double min, double ballad, run off and sleep a bunch of shit, come back; our best bard is excellent about letting stuff follow him until it's a bit closer THEN sleeping it, effectively setting up a 'trail' for us to follow).

And I have tanked weapons, just the same, with a war eva of 235, You don't evade for crap, and wars will always evade for crap. ichi ichi ni is raped within the 1st 30 seconds, assuming you have that many given the speed one needs to pull. And if you have melees(you have to to get high chains, mages don't have the mp to walk around with you) It will whirl in the 1st 20 seconds.

That you mention EVA amuses me. The first thing I do on -ANY- NM is pop Aggressor. I've tanked Aspidochelone and Overlord Baghodek with Aggressor on - name a mob that hits harder than them except like, COP wyrms at near death. I tank Aura Statues wearing Adaman Celata and a Haubergeon. For all I care my EVA is zero, I've never counted on it in my life, save for telling bards to do Dragonfoe Mambo when I'm fighting like, coffer mobs. If I ever need to tank Charybdis again I'll ask for Mambos and keep Aggressor off but that's it (the time I tanked him I had Aggressor/attack gear on, and we hasted 2 BLMs and just had them Stun rotate, can't always count on that sort of support tho).

The up side to this is all melees should over hate a War very very fast. So in the end YOUR NOT TANKING. You can tank with Ni because that's the longest you have hate for.

I guess. By the time I've swung six or seven times the mob is on me until it dies unless MNK or RNG weaponskills and mob lives through it. This is with NINs voking. I'm not bagging on NIN, it's an awesome job, but nothing really tanks off of a WAR/NIN or MNK/WAR too well endgame.

If a war had tanked weapons, as you say, then you would of gotten smited down to yellow looooong ago. Don't put out the "I'm L33t so I must be right card" It's so....

It's not that I'm right because i'm l33t. It's that you're wrong because you're wrong. That you're correct about some WAR/MNK features is immaterial since you're correct on accident.

SEMI-ON TOPIC! My nikkah Nny tanked Fafnir as WAR/MNK today!!! OMG! He was once the learner, now he is the master~

[Corpse1]

Well Kuu...I've read these posts by you...given it alot of thought, so here is my lengthy retort.


Shut up.

[ZQM]

Corpse for the win.

[Russta]

Originally posted by Uroboros
By the time I've swung six or seven times the mob is on me until it dies unless MNK or RNG weaponskills and mob lives through it. This is with NINs voking. I'm not bagging on NIN, it's an awesome job, but nothing really tanks off of a WAR/NIN or MNK/WAR too well endgame.

I completely agree with this. There's only one job I take to tank in level 75 parties and I can assure you it isn't Ninja.

[Mephisto]

From reading this thread, the conclusion I have come to is that Kuu is either not even close to lv75, or plays one of those jobs that gets overlooked in weapon PTs

[kuu]

From reading this thread, the conclusion I have come to is that Kuu is either not even close to lv75, or plays one of those jobs that gets overlooked in weapon PTs

Or you just don't like to have fact get in way of things. And yes I have multiple lvl 75 jobs, it's not really rare thing.

The poster also mentioned 10k an hour, that's roughly chain 11-13 for a weapons pt. I don't know what you're chaining to 27 and then magically go "10k an hour" when I can get the same on chain 11.

So I'm the one smell a lot of BS here. you got EM weapons hiding around somewhere?

Would it be 'strutting weird numbers' to say that I've not been outdamaged by a RNG in exp since I got a Joyeuse, and since I got Ridill I totally blow them all away? This includes a Kriegsbeil/Fransisca/STR+50/Obow RNG doing Slugshots for 1500-2000 on decos. They've got WS on lock and they win on damage for that particular mob when they have Barrage up but on overall DOT over the course of a party WAR/NIN and MNK/WAR both outdamage RNG. The only way RNG pulls ahead again is STR RNG with Kraken. Do you know a lot of those? I know 3.

I know someone with...actually a lot people with axe, ridill, including myself. You mean you're using 2 swords then? What WS could you possibly do to make up the 700+ rampage. So......... you're feeding the weapon even more TP. wow your weapons must never whirl. They annoy me with stun often enough as it is. Having 2 shadows is 50/50 chance of getting stunned in whirl.

Decked out str gear, with dual valor-> 80-100ish a swing. Nothing that special to a mnk/nin who can hit for 150+ a punch. and a ranger who hits for 170ish(once), but sidewinder for 1.5k. A monk would indeed asuran for 800-1k and totally out hate a war fast, or even sooner depending on what range you provoke at.

By your class examples... a war/nin would keep hate until the asuran fist of a monk, and then totally looses hate to a 1.5k sidewinder.

Oh wait, your brd is going around sleeping everything, so of course your not even getting Valor Minuet, or elegy... Wow that's some amazingly weak weapons you find. They must be closer then I remember too, because our redmage doesn't even gravity weapons, much less sleep them, you need to be that fast to pull from so far.

And now you have to do something weird yet again, and bring in kreken rangers .... While yes, they are quite powerful, the spawn rate is the limiting factor even then. They usually make it to 18ish, after a round or so. You can widescan all you want, there's just not enough monsters. And it's really frutstrating to over pull because someone missess xp from being too far.

I feel a lot of War Pride stroking here, live in your fantasies if you want, but you have to wake up sometime. Our LS used to have a run on joke with those people. We always ask them, "So when are you going to solo Kirin." There's only so much you can do, not matter what.