something that's been on my mind (/mnk)

[Macht]

Originally posted by PsychoMatrix
To whoever said Shield/Axe isn't viable. You're sadly mistaken. With /MNK I have countered up to 5 times in a row. Double attack also seems to activate more when using 1 handed axe. Now I for one hit for about 60-80 a hit with 1 handed axe, now if you counter and double attack kicks in.. thats 60-80 x3 or x4.

As far as hate goes, I start with Dodge, provoke, boost, boost. Then i alternate dodge for Warcry, Provoke, Boost, Boost. Then you stack boost and provoke whenever youv'e got it. Solo Rampage for hate, or have the THF trick off you, assassin style.

The warrior/ninja craze is ridiculous, WAR/MNK offers much more as far as tanking, especially before level 74. At 73 I've got nearly 1.6k HP, with nothing but AF on. I've also got counter, which kicks it as often, if not MORE often than it doesn with Monk main. My base VIT is 69, which is comparable to a Hume PLD.

I agree with this. I've seen WAR/MNK in action it's quite deadly with Axe/Shield. You can also use defender and berserk for hate control as well, don't forget they can be removed so you don't have to stick the whole 3 min. with them on.

A WAR/MNK tank would ideally only slap on Berserk for use with their WS Rampage to get that extra bit of damage out for more hate control then remove Berserk quickly or if the monster has lost intrest in them slap on Berserk to get that intrest back on them faster with each hit Berserked hit again removing Berserk once monster is on them again.

Also combinations of foods work really well to give an Axe/Shield using WAR/MNK more power or defense to use various combinations of their Berserk and Defender to have extreemly good hate control.

[iglak]

does Chakra still heal VIT x2 when MNK is subbed?

[Pai Pai Master]

Took WAR to 37 with only /MNK sub, and I can honestly say, tanking with WAR/MNK is one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in parties.

Not only is WAR/MNK an incredible hate-holder, they can do decent damage if JAs are used correctly. Alas, the next time I see someone use Berserk and Defender together, I think I'll have to /suicide. :sweat:

It's just plain fun, and I really do prefer it over WAR/NIN, if I feel that the party I'm playing with knows enough about supporting a WAR/MNK tank.

[Rico]

War/Nin is just too fun ^^ I mean I deal 30 a hit so thats 60 a hit if both are hit. 90 if I get my double attack. Dark Knight in my PT was hitting about 50-60 a hit. But I have a faster attack rate which is more benfitual for the PT. I do need to level my monk sub for my war tough it seems father interesting x.x;

[DakAttack]

War/Mnk may offer more, but it comes up short. Dodge is terribly unreliable and you'll probably see no effect against IT monsters. A one handed axe is faster so yes you'll see Double Attack kick in more, but it's basically the same rate. You can equate War/Mnk with a one-handed axe to a Paladin pretty effectively. The only difference is (other than provoke) a Paladin heals itself to gain and hold hate while a War/Mnk only has Boost. The other abilities offer flash hate which is very unreliable..

This is why War/Mnk does a lot better with a great axe. With the new +Acc equipment you'll have a much easier time landing hits.

[PsychoMatrix]

Those aren't unreliable....

[Macht]

Originally posted by PsychoMatrix
Those aren't unreliable....

Agreed, they are anything but unreliable.

[DakAttack]

You agree, but you offer no explination as to why you think they're unreliable. I can find the exact same posts on a WoW forum where everybody posts /signed like idiots. I guess that's easier than showing us your own point of view or sharing your experiences.

In my vast tanking experiences; as PLD, NIN, and WAR; I find it easiest to keep hate as a Warrior. War/Nin to be specific. Sure, War/Mnk have a lot of abilities that draw hate but like I said it's instant hate that doesn't last long. You can see it for yourself if you let a mage draw hate, boost, and the monster will come running back until the mage casts another spell and it's gone again. Constantly using Boost will build hate along with Provoke to keep it where it is. Dodge really doesn't help the low evasion a Warrior already has and counting on it to make a difference is a fool's play. Focus is useful because any accuracy will help. Berserker and Defender can be pretty useless at times, and still only draw flash hate. Mitigating damage with a shield doesn't do anything for hate, and only using an axe also doesn't do much for hate.

War/Nin on the other hand can absolve the loss of hate through the damage they take with Utsusemi. They'll take damage every once in a while, but it's a lot leses. There's still the loss of hate over time, but they make up for that with a constant flow of attacks. Haste, paralyze, slow, and Carnage Elegy are your friends so you should get to know them.

[ibroyles]

I've never seen a WAR/MNK have much problems holding hate. If anything at lower level WAR/NIN seemed to need more help from sneak/trick than WAR/MNK. Still WAR/NIN keep good hate as well it seems. I'm planning on leveling as WAR/MNK for as long as I can just cause I like how "tankish" it is. Just seems old school and almost a perfect fit.

[Rico]

Originally posted by Impaction
In my vast tanking experiences; as PLD, NIN, and WAR; I find it easiest to keep hate as a Warrior.

Paladins own us holding hate they have cure and flash.

war/mnk is very good, i was with one of them in a pt last night and she was very effective. her dodgin and boosting helped the party a lot.

war/nin is good also, i see this job as a attacker back up tank type. i gain tp a lot faster now ^^ my Utsusemi helps me keep my health almost white the whole fight and if i were to pull i'll come back to the camp unharmed.

[Thegod]

war/nin is half a tank untill lvl 74...bottom line.

you cannot depend on evaded attacks, parried attacks, or any debuffs the mages or you may put on the mon for him to miss you.

The fact is war/mnk is a good tank, but it does suck up alot more mp then a pld or nin post lvl 37.

you'd also be hard pressed to find a warrior who would ditch ALL DDing gears in favor of tank gears with as much vit and defense as he could muster.

most would still hang on to those snipers and lifebelt, and attack earrings, ect ect.

duel wielding is swift as hell, you shouldnt underestimate it, a lvl 50 /nin or lvl 25+ nin is attack really fast, slap haste on that character and tp is jumping in leaps.

[JP_Ikari]

I understand as to how WAR/NIN can keep hate, no damage taken = less enmity loss. Plus having WAR AF body armor, that gives you +8, equivalent to the entire AF by a PLD ; ;. I guess my only question is, with utsu ichi and having DEF and VIT equip, how much damage do you take once you lose Utsu:ichi and can you take hate off of RNG's Barrage or BLM spam after MB??

JP

[Uroboros]

Originally posted by Thegod
war/nin is half a tank untill lvl 74...bottom line.

you cannot depend on evaded attacks, parried attacks, or any debuffs the mages or you may put on the mon for him to miss you.

You can depend on Carnage Elegy plenty well, gear for DD and tank IT+ mobs from 59 on with Aggressor and Berserk up in a good set for 6k+ an hour, doing only slightly less damage than blinged-out RNGs while tanking. But feel free to tell people it's impossible to do something many have proven can be done.

On topic! WAR/MNK is very underrated for exp and baby HNMs. Very good tanking sub. On real HNMs though good luck! As for counter - um, ever seen a 75 MNK with counter merits, counterstance, and relic boots tank Charybdis? You don't counter more than a MNK. :p

[Ariesknight]

Wow. Haven't posted here for quite some time, been lvling and finishing off AF and getting NIN up to par (was underlevelled at 25 from 52--> 60) ^_- .
Anyways WAR/NIN seems to be great for hate keeping. With a BRD it is a piece of cake, without it is still do-able. WAR AF is made for WAR tanking and the +15 enmity and Utsus which cause no hate loss but add to hate keep it glued on you. The moment they drop just throw in a Provoke and that thing will stay on you, regardless of Defender or not. Either way Rampage or Raging Rush will make sure that mob keeps staring at you. As I DD'd with a PLD tanking I had Utsu up in case I got hate from WS to give PLD time to re-take control. After Rampage I found I got hate off PLD and then if hate control got too tricky and the mob ran to the mages as PLD didn't have Voke back I just Provoked the mob ONCE. ONCE in the entire fight and it stayed glued to me till the end with only the +7 enmity I had on (all AF- body which is relpaced by Hauby when DD). Thank god for WAR's versatility. Plus over time surely all the hits Utsu absorbs over the fights adds up to more than a /MNK's evaded, blocked (new shield system remember) or countered?

[Ivadell]

save yourself hours of LFG and go be a BRD. It won't matter which SJ is better because you'll always be LFG in Jeuno.