How do you tank as a WAR/NIN pre-74?

[Ashtyr]

I'm currently 50/25 WAR/NIN (and I love it BTW), but I really want to know how to tank effectively pre-74 when I don't have Utsu: Ni. It seems that no matter what I do mobs will hit me for over 100 damage. Since I have barely 1000 HP, that's not very productive. Any pointers?

[ZQM]

Post I made on another forum.

Some background info before I tell you how, I was in a static party that consisted of WAR (me), WAR, NIN, BLM, BRD, WHM. At 66, do to the start of the school year and the NIN being in Europe, the NIN and other WAR left. Our first party after they left, we figured we'd pick up a DD + tank. After hours of looking and no tank getting on, I decided to tank myself.

I started out thinking I was going to be a DEF tank. Equiped with DEF, VIT, and -pysical damage, ate Fish Mithkabobs, ect. But, once my food wore, I realized I was hardly ever hit! I could fully blink tank nearly a whole fight. I switched out my AF body for Haubergeon, Phalanx and Jelly Ring for STR rings, Fish Mithkabobs for Meat Mithkabobs, using Berserk and Aggressor whenever they're up, ect. I was equipped for DD, yet I was tanking. That means I was dealing upen the top damage in my PT, while tanking the whole time and hardly getting hit.

Now, before you say "impossible, Utsusemi can't last that long," here's how it's done.

The key to it, is a BRD. At level 59, they gain the song "Carnage Elegy". This reduces the monsters attack speed by A LOT. Most mobs will attack around ~5 seconds or so with it (sometimes as long at 9 seconds in the case of Manticores), so it's very easy to cast Utsusemi imbetween hits (4 second cast time).

If you're then able to get another debuffer in the party to land Slow and Paralyze, it becomes even easier. Not needed, but it does make shadows last longer. Haste is also wonderful, since that will shave 6 seconds off of Utsusemi:Ichi.

Stun is also nice, but not needed. Only time I have ever asked for stun was when Elegy was resisted.

Speaking of resists, you will need to keep a deffensive set on you. If elegey is resisted, it becomes very hard to tank. Also you want to use it once your shadows are down and Utsusemi isn't up (you still get hit 1-3 times a fight on most monsters). In my offensive set, I have the least amount of DEF in my PT and get hit for ~200 damage. Switch out to defensive gear and defender and that will reduce the damage taken to ~100. Obviously you wouldn't want to use the defensive gear often, but it does make a difference in life and death.

As far as hate goes, I really doubt I need to address it. Seeing as this is for WARs, I'm sure you know how much damage we do. Hate is never an issue considering we're in the top of our party's damage, then add in Provoke.

Now, in order to obtain the highest damage, I suggest using a Great Axe from 60-70. There are no good Axes at that level, so you will notice a difference. Also, if you're two other melees are doing light, Full Break is a very good skillchain opener. It's not there for it's own damage; it's there to boost up skilchain damage. Not only will it increase the other two melee's damage, but it will allow light to do 150% damage and adds another hundreds damage Fusion effect, allowing for the skillchain to kill the mob quickly. I've seen a ~1.5k Shark Bite follwowed by a ~2.2k light skillchain when fighting flies (Note: THF isn't there for hate control, THF is there for damage).

When you get 70, you can equip the weapon Joyeuse. I would strongly suggest this and an axe. On Manticores, I could do 2 WSs per fight (they have a ton of HP) because of how often Joyeuse goes off. However, I had to stop using Rampage at the start of a fight because then the RNG's Sidewinder couldn't turn the mob.

Now at 75, I choose to go back to Great Axe because of the big skillcap difference

I wouldn't say WAR's are the best tanks at everything. Before Utsusemi nerf-patch, I had a huge problem tanking bones with two MNKs. MNKs are just too much damage against bones and WAR can't keep up with them. And now that most bones TP moves remove all shadows, keeping them up would be a pain in the ass. Also, I had an easier time tanking weapons pre-patch with just Utsusemi:Ichi then I do post patch with both Utsusemis. -_-; When it comes to most mobs though, I think WAR is a lot better then PLD and NIN considering we take hardly any damage and deal among the top (sometimes even the top) damage in the party.

I've also died twice. First time against a spider, when double attack wore my last two shadows then I ate a sickle slash, followed by another round of double attacks (with one crit). Other time against a manticore, same thing happened really. Double attack wore off my last two shadows, and I ate a deadly hold for more damage then I have HP.

[Rogan]

war/nin is not a very good tank at all pre 74 imo, they have basically weakness from both sides, they cant take hits well or hold hate very well without skill , weakness of nins, and they cant dodge hits very well do to only utsu ichi, weakness of pld. I think ive only resorted to asking for a war/nin to tank maybe twice..not a great idea unless maybe its a blm or rng pt

[Ashtyr]

Actually, my WAR/NIN deals so much damage that I'm able to rip hate off of pretty much any tank. PLDs have an incredibly hard time keeping hate off of me when I go full out DD, it's a good thing I have Utsu.

[Rogan]

Originally posted by Ashtyr
Actually, my WAR/NIN deals so much damage that I'm able to rip hate off of pretty much any tank. PLDs have an incredibly hard time keeping hate off of me when I go full out DD, it's a good thing I have Utsu.

Then I suggest you keep going into pts as a DD:p

[asphoRe]

If, on the chance that you are tanking, but there is not bard that can provide carnage elegy, here is what you can do to help recast (Note this works quite easy on crabs, but not so well on faster hitting mobs)

-Try to know when the mob will initiate its next round of attack, ie. its delay.

-Start casting Utsusemi, and time it so the mob will attack BEFORE your casting bar reaches 20%.

Your spell should cast fine without problems, this method allows you to tank decently without having to rely on bards, often just a RDMs slow will help out tons.

Note that, if the mob double attacks (non crab obviously), you just need to make sure the FIRST hit connects before 20%, since server side, the damage dealt is calculated in one chunk, and that it is just graphically shown to be a double attack.

[LordBiGGs]

i seriously wouldnt want to have to rely on a brd. there just arent enough around, at least not on my server. its not that hard to recast. just make sure the mob is paralyzed, blind and slow'd, then try to cast shortly before it hits you (as stated above).

right now my war/nin is only 37, but i'm thinking about taking it all the way. i find it a lot more enjoyable than pld (then again i play'd pld a lot more so it was bound to get old i guess).

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Rogan
Then I suggest you keep going into pts as a DD:p

youre a drg, you have no right to talk D; WAR can tank and be DD at the same time, why not do both? He just wants tips to doing that

[Irinicus]

I agree with Mephisto, they can be both quite effectively.

[Sword]

Originally posted by Irinicus
I agree with Mephisto, they can be both quite effectively.

I'd have to disagree.

[Irinicus]

Of course you have to disagree. How typical of you to. Maybe you could be more constructive in your comments lime maybe adding a reason to your comment instead of just leaving it 'I have to disagree'.

[Sword]

I hope I hav'nt upset you too much over my text. Grow up? suck dick? Been in jail a lot?


I just sumed up your life ^^

[ZQM]

About how efficent WAR EXP tanking is Pre-74...

There's 5 "main" things when it comes to tanking.

1) Damage migration. NIN will always be on the top. WAR can be just as good as NIN on slow attacking mobs (Manticores), but will be farther behind on fast attacking mobs (Spiders). PLDs can be just as good, but they rely on MP for it which brings up my next point.

2) Downtime. PLDs will always have downtime do to their damage migration method. And I don't mean resting-between-chains, I mean resting between fights. When you're chaining in the teens, you don't want anybody resting and interupting the chain. Again, NINs on the top, and WAR depending on the mob.

3) Hatekeeping. This is solely based on the person, not the job. Every job can keep hate. PLDs are the king in this, but there's only so much that you need. Also, when partying with a THF or /THF, you don't want to have a lot of hate. Otherwise, the skillchain is messed up.

4) Damage. The most overlooked part of tanking, but actually the most important. WAR's are obviously going to be on top here. DD NINs are very comparable to WAR's, but most NINs don't realize this. Evasive NINs and PLD's are at the bottom. Damage helps with all the above methods. The mode damage you do, the less damage you have to migrate, the less downtime there will be, and you will keep better hate.

Which all ultimatly leads to:

5) EXP gained. Faster fights = more chains = more exp. That is gained by damage. WAR is at the top WHEN they can efficently migrate damage and minimalize downtime. This is easily gained by putting a BRD in the party (Which will also raise everybody elses performance, and gain even more EXP).

However, a WAR doesn't need a BRD, it just puts them at the top. As a WAR without a BRD, you'd want to aim for slow attack mobs without Double Attack or deadly TP moves (I.E. Crabs, Crawlers). It's still possible, just not as efficent.

[Rogan]

Originally posted by Mephisto
youre a drg

and? oh and btw you can fuck yourself
I have every right to talk I don't care whether you like the job I chose for a video game, allow me to repeat that...

[Rogan]

Originally posted by Rogan
a video game

So get a life.