Damage cap

[Sturm]

Hey there,

I am a 75 war/whatever sub you choose and noticed that I am not able to get beyond 189 damage crits on even match or weaker mobs ever since I reached 110 str. Even boosting my str to the 130s doesn't change that anymore. Attack is like 500s with food, a good 600s with berserk. I use woofvile's axe in primary, juggernaut in secondary slots.

Does anyone one of you score higher damage on crits with 1 handed axes? If yes, please post your equip or mail it to me.

Thanks!

[Halato]

Doesn't dex increase your critical damage cap?

[Sturm]

not that I know. Dex however increased the frequency of critical hits. That's very well visible with byakko's haidate and a few other +dex items such as warriors mask. But the raw damage cap still stays the same

[Halato]

hmmm...

Strange that you are capping that low with that much STR then. My kicks crit for 230+ and my fist weapons can crit above 200. Your attack and str both sound higher than mine... My attack is 380 without food or zerk.

Only thing I can really think of is your weaponskill cap. Axe isn't A+ for warriors. Damage is calculated strangely for H2H, though.

When I was questing my brown belt in Ordelles, I remember my crit cap at that level was 180 consistently. I was in the 60's at the time, and those gobs and stropers let me crit on them very often. I had to come back multiple times, and after I leveled, my crit cap on them went up some.

Maybe your attack and str has exceded your skill rating with axe or something... how's your merit points going?

[nirro]

i heard a few times AGI stat plays a factor on how high you can critical hit for, haven't really tried testing it out tho. but i am elvaan with the same set up weaponwise and 189 seems to be what i top out with on woodville's/jugg

[Sturm]

I already got my axe skill to 278 (that is having it upgraded 3 times). So yeh.. I guess I reached the absolute cap for axes.

The str and attack+ is still noticable in increasing the overall damage on hits that don't score criticals though. On average I feel they are going up towards the 189 damage mark. /sigh need a newjob

[Mithrael]

Maximum DMG has been more-or-less 'proven' to be dependant on your Weapon alone. It can't ever really be proven until someone leaks the source code and we can look. The frequency of reaching Max DMG is based on your attack and STR. Once you reach your cap, whatever that may be, no amount of STR, DEX, or Attack will be able to get over that (except on special mobs that have increases to physical damage like Boreal Hound).

[Karinya]

I've heard that the amount of damage you can get from high STR is limited based on the damage of the weapon. However, if you're already using Woodville's, there isn't a lot of room for improvement - I think only Ogre Killer and Guttler (the upgraded Relic axes) have higher damage. You might get more out of a Tabarzin/Tabarzin+1 in your off hand against weak mobs, but the loss of str and atk will hurt you against exp/HNM. (Tabarzin takes two adaman ingots to synth, I hope you're rich if you want to try it.)

Do you notice a significant difference in max damage between the Woodville's and the Juggernaut?

[little ninja]

the drk in my ls who is lvl 60/ 30 thf. can do a sneak atk on a mob for about 280-290 critical. the mobs were worthwhiles, an his scythe is vasagoo, capped at 203, an he is 66+11 str.

maybe due to the fact that it is a 1 handed weapon, your crits are gonna max out around the 190 range. a i notice my 1 handed weapons are low crits compared to the drks 2 handed weapon. why not grab a g axe. an go sneak atk behind a worthwhile mob an see what that equals.

basically evenone says you eventually cap depending on what mob you fight.

[Apple Pie]

The highest damage possible with Woodvile's Axe:

(50 + int (50 / 9) + 8) * 3.0 = 189

Here's how you calculate it.

Damage = (D + fSTR) * PDIF

Note: We have a different formula for ranged attack.

D: Base Damage of your weapon (e.g., Woodvile's Axe = 50)

fSTR: 0 ~ int (D / 9) + 8 depending on the difference between your STR and target's VIT

PDIF: 0.0 ~ 2.4 (3.0 on criticals) depending on [Your attack / target's defence]

In your case, both fSTR and PDIF are high enough and thus capped against those creatures. Therefore, no matter how much STR you add, you won't get any more damage increase.

BTW, your axes may be able to do more (up to +12.5%) on dogs (= Hounds) since they're weak on slashing weapons.

EDIT: fSTR corrected.

[nirro]

Apple Pie

I appreciate you sharing your wealth of game info and mechanics here on the warrior forum as I am sure many others do too. So thanks a lot man.

[Sturm]

Holy cow Apple Pie,

thanks a lot! After all I am done looking for things to improve my crit damage and can work on stuff to help maxing out the average damage

@ Littleninja: Due to the lower base damage of 1handed weapons the crits are naturally lower. However, the damage over time is greater (in my experience by lots) using 2 one handed axes. Using a Byakko's Axe for example generates fearsome crits of around 33x but attacks slower and has less chance to double strike. That and the "which sub is most suitable for which weapon" however is another discussion.

Thanks again Apple Pie!

[Apple Pie]

Well, the credit goes to a bunch of testers willing to submit samples for months and some players with great math knowledge finding the formula in the end :sweat:

Anyway, although the damage of your regular attack is capped with enough attack and STR, the one of your weapon skills is still increased by adding STR. You may want to check WS formula that Rugal (aka imac2much) posted on PLD's forum.
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...threadid=47276

For example,

Decimation 1.00 3x STR_50%

This means 50% of your STR is added to the base damage of Decimation.

Comparing the highest damage possible of it between STR90 and 100 at LV75 with Woodvile's Axe (main) and Juggernaut (sub).

STR90
Woodvile's 3 Hit: (50 + int(50 / 9) + 8 + int(45 * 0.83)) * 2.4 * 3 = 720
Juggernaut 1 hit: (46 + int(46 / 9) + 8 + int(45 * 0.83)) * 2.4 = 230
Total: 950 points of damage

STR100
Woodvile's 3 Hit: (50 + int(50 / 9) + 8 + int(50 * 0.83)) * 2.4 * 3 = 748
Juggernaut 1 Hit: (46 + int(46 / 9) + 8 + int(50 * 0.83)) * 2.4 = 240
Total: 988 points of damage

This is when fSTR is capped (= you have enough STR against target's VIT). However in XP PT where you fight with VT/IT mobs, fSTR is hardly capped and there may be more difference in damage output of Decimation between STR90 and STR100. Therefore, it must be nice to equip some STR+ gears on your WS as most SAMs do.

Finally,

the damage over time is greater (in my experience by lots) using 2 one handed axes.

Fully agreed. In fact, WAR/NINs can build their TP very fast resulting in more SC and MB while doing some good damage with their axes. As a result, the overall performance of the PT is further enhanced.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Sturm
Using a Byakko's Axe for example generates fearsome crits of around 33x but attacks slower and has less chance to double strike.

It's hardly slower. With two 288 axe:

288+288=576

576*.85=489 delay (DWII)
576*.80=460 (Suppannomimi)
Byakko's Axe = 504 delay.

489/60=attack every 8.15 seconds
460/60=attack every 7.6 seconds
504/60=attack every 8.4 seconds

Add in haste, which should be had.

Haste adding 20%, tested by having haste when casting Utsusemi(30 second recast timer, 24 with haste. 30*.8=24, 45 second recast timer, 36 with haste. 45*.8=36).

489*.8=391
460*.8=368
504*.8=403

391/60=attack every 6.516
368/60=attack every 6.13 seconds
403/60=attack every 6.716 seconds.

A 2 millasecond (or 5 millasecond with Suppanomimi) doesn't exactly sound like a big advantage.

Also, while you have a higher chance to Double Attack with Dual Wield, you also need two double attacks to equal one double attack on Great Axe, so it evens out.

As far as TP gain goes, dual wield lowers the amount of TP you get per hit, so you don't actually gain TP faster unless you reach the minimum TP you can get per hit (5 TP) which Axe won't reach.

I'd also like to point out that Great Axe has both an ACC and ATK advantage over Axe post 60.

[asphoRe]

I'm curious, is TP gained per hit based ONLY on the delay shown on the weapon, or your total delay with abilities factored in? (ie. Dual Wield, Haste etc...)

Just hypothetically speaking, I gain 6 TP per hit, dual axes before lv50 (So as a war/nin I won't have DWII yet). Then compared to the exact same equips but above lv50, with DWII, since 6TP isn't the minimum I can get per hit, does it go down when I get DWII?

My point is that, ZQM would be correct if additional delay-lowering abilities affected the TP gain per hit, and not only the delay of the weapon itself, then yes dual wielding war/nins do not have a TP gain advantage to a Gaxe using war.