WAR/THF tank?

[Ashtyr]

In my offtime from my SAM, I like to play as a WAR/THF. CUrrently I'm at level 44, and I've found one thing: I am not a tank. I even put it in my search message: "I'm NOT A GODDAMN TANK." Whenever I tank, I die. Yet parties still expect me to tank since I am a WAR. So, should I be tanking? Or should I run for the hills?

[Russta]

You should level the other appropriate subs, Monk and/or Ninja, carry attack and defence food and have at least both axe's leveled. You're level 44 so you should have this done anyway because the only excuse for not doing all of the above is if you're simply leveling a sub and even then it's a weak one. If I invite a Warrior I want him to do the role I'm inviting him for, that's what makes a Warrior a Warrior. Would you invite a Paladin who only used a Great Sword?

[crowly]

Bah couldn't see a war tanking post yhoat and pre Utsusemi: Ni.

Starting in garliage the mobs just do way too much damage. If you can't cure yourself like a paladin can the mages will burn mp keeping you alive.

And equipping vit gear before the koenig set can really hurt your damage...which really hurts your hate keeping abilitys.

[Sheng]

Originally posted by crowly
Bah couldn't see a war tanking post yhoat and pre Utsusemi: Ni.

Starting in garliage the mobs just do way too much damage. If you can't cure yourself like a paladin can the mages will burn mp keeping you alive.

And equipping vit gear before the koenig set can really hurt your damage...which really hurts your hate keeping abilitys.

Have you ever played Warrior ??

Even in Garlaige, a WAR/NIN will take few damage and thus keep hate easily with Provoke and raw damage. Later on (45), with Warcry we get another great hate building tool.

A WAR/MNK will often be an excellent tank, it's VERY easy to build hate with Boost, Counter and Provoke.

And at 59 a WAR/NIN in a PT including a BRD is, hands down, the best tank available.

[crowly]

Have you ever played Warrior ??

Even in Garlaige, a WAR/NIN will take few damage and thus keep hate easily with Provoke and raw damage. Later on (45), with Warcry we get another great hate building tool.

A WAR/MNK will often be an excellent tank, it's VERY easy to build hate with Boost, Counter and Provoke.

And at 59 a WAR/NIN in a PT including a BRD is, hands down, the best tank available.


I have and still am, but I've also played paladin. And pre utsu nin I can honestly say they suck at tanking.

As a pld with 500defense and +20vit in the 50's beetles would be hitting for 60 and crabs, the ones that give good xp...would be hitting for 100.

War's should just stick to dealing damage. Boost is crap for hate. Warcry and such aren't exactly grabbing it like flash or cures.

Now sure, war's can wear full af and have a hell of a lot of enmity, but passing up a haubergeon for af body...might as well quit.(pld's and ninjas have +enmity gear too)


Now uh...your war main aren't you? And you like to tank right? And you can't afford a haubergeon or hauberk right?

[crowly]

Bleh was supposed to be in quotes...not used to this style. Anyways, equip all your gear and try to keep hate from a 1000 damage mb mid fight and tell me wars are good tanks.(now you can't cheat and tell your blm to nuke less til the burst)

[Tokitoki]

Warcry = 35... not 45... have YOU ever played WAR? :p

[ZQM]

Originally posted by crowly
I have and still am, but I've also played paladin. And pre utsu nin I can honestly say they suck at tanking.

WARs. Do. Not. Suck. At. Tanking. Before. Utsusemi: Ni. They. Are. Argueably. The. Best. Tank. Post. 59. With. A. BRD.

Carry on.

[Ziguld]

WARs. Do. Not. Suck. At. Tanking. Before. Utsusemi: Ni. They. Are. Argueably. The. Best. Tank. Post. 59. With. A. BRD.

With a Bard who knows what Elegy does, yes. Hate sometimes becomes an issue, that's my only gripe with war/nin as a tank. 1 Big burst from a blm or a decked out ranger going ape shit causes hate problems and Warcry usually isn't enough.

After doing the pld thing for 75 levels and now doing the war tank thing for the majority of my post 60 levels... War/nin is definatly the winner of the two with brd.

[ZQM]

WS at start of fight is enough for me on IT mobs. Then again, Raging Rush hates you.

VT mobs though I agree. Chaining Weapons, I normally can't hold hate very well because I can only provoke once a fight (otherwise it won't be ready for the next one, then hate is REALLY an issue). Then add in RNG doing over 200 damage a shot with Double Minuet and 1500-2k Sidewinders.... :dead:

[Pai Pai Master]

I'm not too knowledgeable in this area as yet, but wouldn't a WAR/NIN be able to sustain a good level of hate by using more of its Ninja debuffs on mobs?

I normally haven't seen this done in my experience...how's it go?

[ZQM]

Wouldn't work.

The actually debuffs (Kuriyama, Hojo, Jubaku) wouldn't stick on a mob. I have trouble landing them on my 56 NIN with capped Ninjutsu.

The elemental enfeebles (Katon, Doton, ect.) are not strong at all. ~4 damage on a normal hit, ~10 damage on a magic burst. With the 4 second casting time, you would get more hate from just attacking the mob.

[Uroboros]

On IT mobs I've never had a problem keeping hate on anything, and tanked just fine long before I got Utsu: Ni. One of my proudest moments in my entire gameplay history was in Cape Terrigan fighting IT+ pugs, and our Galka RNG/WAR went to open renkei with Sidewinder, did 1k damage, mob didn't turn, then he voked, and mob still didn't turn, and THF couldn't close renkei. XD For the entire duration of my tanking I've spammed consistent 400~600 Rampages, nearly never lost hate, and -never once died as the tank in an exp party-, while never getting under 5kish an hour for exp. On gear, it is not hard to either a) swap Hauberk in for WS, wear AF body rest of the time, or b) swap to AF body for vokes and Warcries, use Hauberk rest of the time, depending on how stable hate control is. Just because crowly can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

However, like Nny said, the easier a mob is, the harder it is for WAR to tank. Then again the harder it is for anything to tank. Fighting T~VT pots or golems or weapons in sky at 75, LS's two MNKs give me and the PLDs in the LS fits, it's nearly impossible to tank them. Everyone just hits VT or less too hard and too consistently for -anything- to reliably tank. I honestly think MNK/NIN is the best VT or less tank at endgame, freaking autoattack with Vishnu and Dune Boots and leave the room and hold hate. >< WAR can't keep up with that pace without a Ridill, and uh we don't all have that luxury, heh.

[Kibagami]

No offence but crowly must suck if he can't tank with WAR at garliage or CN. Fuck ive been finishing lvling up my MNk sub. Got invited to CN at 33 MNk...to tank....by JP...i thought i was gonna die first fight. Turns out it was easy as shit. Why do ppl think WAR can't hold hate for shit? If anything i had a mayor problem holding hate with PLD pre flash Specially on parties that go too fast for you to gain mp back.

[LadyPeorth]

Seeing as how everyone else is on the "WAR can tank" topic...I'll push us back on topic.

Knowing that you probably don't have infinite time to fully level all possible WAR subs (MNK, THF, NIN), I'll give you from the facts I've experienced. Unless you wanna shell out money for tanking gear, you're going to hafta empervise. First of all, you're WAR/THF...Sneak attack is your best friend if no THF is present. Set up a standard SATA order, and SA then Provoke. Importantly, Berserk, Defender, and Aggressor should be considered as useless while tanking. Cancelling the effect after using it is like a tiny tiny provoke and can only happen every 5 minutes...not too useful. Use Steal and Warcry seperate of each other...Steal adds a little hate, and Warcry is your panic button. Finally, tell your party that EXP will be slow if you tank and they should grab a PLD or NIN first chance they get. Another important note is to avoid high damage weapon skill mobs. As you are a DD WAR, your defense is not so great and you don't have shadows with THF sub. Follow those guidelines and you should be fine. I'm still asked to tank as a 47/23 WAR/THF and I do a mildly good job (exp chain 3 most of the time).

As for the WAR can tank argument, post 37, PLDs and NIN hold hate better and take less damage...even considering a WAR/NIN with top of the line gear. Utsusemi: Ichi is only so good compared to both Ichi and NI, and Flash for PLDs is a great hate generator, and gives them 3 free misses to cure themselves and add even more hate.