Tanking, Transition from pre-30 to post-30

[Darkedge]

What are changes I need to worry about going from Kazham to the, more real world, of the game.

Right now I'm tanking as WAR/MNK and Boost Whoring with Provoke and Great Axe, eating meat mithkabobs. I don't like PLDs right now because in Kazham I can tank just as well as them, but deal 2-3 times the damage (seemingly--no parsers to use..) I've only really lost hate when other members start voking every 30 seconds, or are blinged out MNKs that voke.

After 30 I can imagine damage dealing as War/Thf and using SA Sturmwind. Just wondering, when will I stop using Sturmwing/Great Axe to close SCs?

Tanking post 30 is what I'm interrested in. If I'm tanking I will be using MNK sub until 37 (when I'll have non warrior stuff to worry about), using the boost/provoke spamming to keep hate. Will I need to use Fish Kabobs instead of Meat Mithkabobs when tanking? Will I have to go back to Axe and Shield any time soon?

War/Nin.. do people appreciate it right after 30? I don't plan on leveling it, but would it work from 30-37, or how about 37+?

I do care about my job, so I have as many questions as these. As for the equipment questions, being 27 right now, at level 29, are the Kampf- WAR/PLD armor worth getting? 3 More defense + 3 AGI for an extra 24k? The legs I'm thinking of getting for 3 AGI and 3 VIT. I'm wearing RSE Gloves, and I have ~48 STR at 27.
Any other armor purchases I should look forward to?

[Voila!]

For some reason War/Mnk will start to cut it less and less after thirty, and start to pick up more around 50 when you get Focus. Boost seems to pull in instant hate, but isn't anything to count on. You really can tank as War/Thf with a second provoker. You'll keep hate by merely using Sneak Attack, and SA+Sturmwind once every two or three fights. If you go War/Nin I'd still go with a great axe because the WSs are REALLY helpful in certain situations. You'll have Shield Break to lower evasion if you're having a problem there, Sturmwind to guaruntee hate, and at 33 Armor Break if you're having damage troubles.

Is your strength really that high at 27? Mine was 33 base strength as Mithra War/Thf at 30, yet the parties I had up until 33 would have gone nowhere without the numbers I was churning out. Str+12, Dex+6, Agi+4, Vit+3. (| Hmmm... |)

[Darkedge]

34 + 10 from equipment + 5 from food. close enough to 49^^

I have my hume RSE Gloves instead of the SandOria gloves, because San dOria gloves give 1 more attack, but 3 less dex.

I have VIT+3, from Warriors Belt, Stamina Ring, Meat Mithkabob, and Hume RSE gloves.

Yesterday in Yhoator Jungle I got a taste of tanking there, near the end of the night I had defender on almost all the time (it might have been because of bad healer, but I've taken a lot of damage in the second jungle.) I've also been using Shield Break while in Yhoator, and gone back to Neck Chopper because of accuracy issues.

Do I ever switch over to defense food rather than attack food? How long will I be using GAxe for?

[Voila!]

Defender is pretty bad. If you could keep hate with Defender on you deserve an award, because it severely cuts off attack which weakens your hold on the hate.

Both meatkabobs and fishkabobs are useful. If you're taking a lot of damage but can keep hate use the fish, but if you're having trouble with hate use the meatkabobs and demand a better whm. >_<

War/Nin really works well in Garlaige because their attacks can be a bit strong and a single critical hit will throw the hate in any direction. It's important that the whm doesn't wait until you're low on health to drop cures all over you, and uses them as needed.

You can party to 32 in Yhoator, to 34 on Weapons near the beetles in Saru, and then to 35 real quick in Garlaige. You might even be able to continue on weapons with a 4 or 5 man team.

Crawlers are easier to tank as long as the whm has Erase or Slowna(if it exists) and you have a rdm or brd that can dispel. Crawlers don't really have any killer moves, but they link like the pit demons in Zvahl.

[laicram]

Hmmm, I suspect you glanced at my War Guide for Mid lvls. It's not really a beginner's guide, because I left a lot of basic info out.

As War/Thf, you end Skillchains with SA Strurmwind:
- if it fits the PT config
- and the mob is weak to Fragmentation(wind/ice) or Reverbration(water)

Sometimes it would be better to end with SA Raging Axe to close Fusion(fire/light). Or even use Smash Axe as a starter.

If you're not needed to start or close a Skillchain, SA Shield Break or Armor break is very useful on it's own.

When tanking, fish-kabobs=yes. Lvls 26-30 tanking is kind of unreal because Mandras are so easy. After that you're off to Garliage and the bats hit much much harder. You'll want that Vit+ armor, and you'll want to use Defend. Tank is all about defense - let the "damage dealers" do the damage.

Everything I wanna say about War/Nin tank vs War/Mnk Tank is in my quick and dirty guide. Go check it if you haven't =P

[Darkedge]

I had a party tonight as probably my last kazham party, I tried using fish and I went from 28 to 1k into 30.

Tanking with Fish was very nice. I felt really comfortable and although my damage output was lower, I was able to use Shield Break for most of the party, letting me get extra hits in.

I might take a break for other jobs, THF most specifically, but for tanking in altepa.. do beetles hit much harder than mandies? I know mandies are weak, but they do attack twice.. is beetle damage output >>> that two attacks from a mandy? Would the lvl 29 WAR/PLD gear be worth buying for these guys?

[Elesirdur]

Speaking as a Paladin (but not speaking for my entire community mind you) as you get higher in level parties and people tend to demand more specialists than generalists - or at least that has been my experience in my year in Vana'diel. If you're going to tank, do it all the way, if you want to be a DD, go gonzo and get all the Str+ and Dex+ items you can get your hands on. However, you may find yourself a little hamstrung if you try and create a 'jack of all trades, master of none' character by being an aggressive tank.

Lastly, if you're serious about being a War/Thf or War/Mnk tank I highly recommend eating fish mithkabobs or, even better, boiled crab. The boiled crab does have a bit of a Dex hit, but the extra Vit and ~21% Defenese boost will be much needed. Even a fully maxed out Paladin will start tanking monsters that do up to and over 100 Damage per hit by lvl 50, and without the extra defense and Vit of a Pld/War you could be incurring damage up to 150 or even 180 per hit. That's a Cure III every time a monster hits you, and that's a lot of MP. Without the ability to cure yourself, you put a lot of pressure on the White Mage, and possibly Rdm/Whm, in your party.

Forgive me if I'm being overly negative, but I want you to have a happy and positive experience in Vana'diel. By all means, if you can be a better, more aggressive, and sturdier tank in the mid-levels and beyone as War/Mnk or War/Thf more power to you; but you're venturing down a dangerous road that may see you KO'd often, or even worse, KO'd teammates.

Good luck and keep us aprised of your progress!

[Darkedge]

In my mind, I blocked out /THF as DD, and /MNK as a tank. I've taken whm to 46, and I know that War/Thf have an incredibly hard time holding hate, where as /mnk has a more defense edge with more hate holding tools.

Right now I need to do some farming and research on future purchases, not sure if I'll take war to 37 before I unlock PLD and other jobs.

I haven't tasted the post 50 life of this game, but I'm pretty positive that I will go along path of a tank. I haven't really met any non War/Nins that have tanked their way to high levels though...

But anyway, I'm going to be eating seafood for sure. The difference between Fish and Meat kabobs is REDICULOUSLY noticable and the choice is obvious

[little ninja]

after the jungle i seen war/mnk get pawned to easily. as well as seeing war/thf useless unless there is a second voker present. war/nin can generate enough hate no prob. but basically after your 5th shadow. your pretty much cant rely on utsesemi. but if you plan to go to 37 as a DD. id say stick with /mnk. that extra def as a second voker is very nice.

as for going main tank for the rest of your vana deil life. go ninja cause we rock

[ZQM]

Originally posted by little ninja
as for going main tank for the rest of your vana deil life. go ninja cause we rock

I'm really biting my tounge on not responding and then starting a flame war, but please do not say nonsense like that.

Originally posted by Elesirdur
However, you may find yourself a little hamstrung if you try and create a 'jack of all trades, master of none' character by being an aggressive tank.

It is possible to do this. I have tanked my way from 67 to where I am now in Haubergeon, using Berserk, Meat Mithkabobs, ect. However, in order to become this over-powered combo, it relies more on party skill then your own skill. You need competent people in your party. You can most likely not do this in a pick up group. You would also want key jobs. A debuffer (BRD best by a long shot, RDM can also do) and a haster (WHM or RDM, depends really on PT set up). A stunner is also nice (BLM, DRK) if debuffs don't land. You'd also want a DEF set of equipment (Jelly Ring, AF Body, ect.) for when Utsusemi is down. There's also certain mobs that I doubt WAR can tank, mainly fast-hitting mobs (I.E. Lizards).

Nothing is more rewarding though then being a top damage dealer and a top tank all rolled into one party slot.

[Elesirdur]

Well Ninja tanks have the ability to be aggressive tanks because of Utsusemi. Without it you would get torn to shreads - as you well know. I'm not going to open the entire Paladin v. Ninja tanking discussion, but it really is just by the virtue of Utsusemi that Ninja's can tank at all. But when they do, and do it well, I am indeed awed and owe them much respect. ^^~

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Elesirdur
Well Ninja tanks have the ability to be aggressive tanks because of Utsusemi. Without it you would get torn to shreads - as you well know. I'm not going to open the entire Paladin v. Ninja tanking discussion, but it really is just by the virtue of Utsusemi that Ninja's can tank at all. But when they do, and do it well, I am indeed awed and owe them much respect. ^^~

However, a ninja isn't a very aggressive DD.

They're DoT 65+ is aweosme, but they lack any good WS. Also, with the lower damage on katana, their crits don't do much as well and their cap is low. They're DoT on normal hits is very respectable, though.

[little ninja]

i been in a 2 ninja pt, an geared my way more of a dd. ochido kote (sp?), 2 sniper rings, a lifebelt, 2 katanas with 190 delay. add in the cheifkabobs, an berserk. i was easily out damaging the other ninja. especially when you land all hits, an dbl atk kicks in as a 50nin/25war..

i remember once pting with my drk along side a war tank in crawlers nest. he held hate extremely well. better then i seen any pld or ninja do to that date an time. so i have seen 1 player do it very well. but i think if the pt was a different set up, or we had players who just nuked until they were empty, or rng who pulled with barrage. it may have been a different story. so yes the pt will make or break a war tank..


the pld stands like the mighty oak in front of the mob. yelling at it to dare chop him down. the ninja plays with the enemies mind. toying with him. exclaiming,. you dont know what one of me to hit. the war is like a prize fighter in the final round. punch for punch refusing to go down..

thats how i look at the pld,nin,war in there tanking modes...

[Voila!]

War/Thf is stronger then Thief/War both beaing equipped well. You can easily get 250+ SA+Sturmwind and normal hits around 50 and 60. I'm a mithra and I leveled my warrior from 30-34 as War/Thief and EVERY party I was in rocked because of my numbers. I think it was because I had the extra Dex that I could concentrate on the Str I needed.

And it's six shadows you can use while blink tanking. Cast three, and on the third recast while the last shadow goes down. It's hard at time to gauge it when I'm leveling ninja because I dodge so much and end up wasting a shadow which always sucks.

It's hard to time some monsters to try and get utsusemi back, and impossible with others without slow and paralyze and haste.

the pld stands like the mighty oak in front of the mob. yelling at it to dare chop him down. the ninja plays with the enemies mind. toying with him. exclaiming,. you dont know what one of me to hit. the war is like a prize fighter in the final round. punch for punch refusing to go down..

I like the sound of that for some reason...

[little ninja]

war/thf is more of a DD. then it be as a tank role. an in order for it to work you do need a second voker. otherwise getting off the s.a sturmwind is impossible. it could work as a tank. but once again. the pt does need that second voker. or the thf sub isnt really all that great.

i said 5 shadows instead of 6. cause i cant tell you how many times as a war/nin, casting it to have a mob turn. or for the mob to miss, or i parry the attack. an not even take that third shadow. same thing can be said as a nin/war. an foget about getting it back up once it goes down. as a nin/war with capped ninjitsu. i get interupted at 90% all the time. an thats with haste, an then mobs attack speed slowed down..

lol im glad you like it. to me it just seems to portray those jobs so well in there tank modes.