Warriors and HNMs/BCNMs

[ichrius]

Are warriors wanted for any of these? Or any of the missions/quests, no matter what the sub of the warrior...thanks in advance!

[Lmnop]

as far as BCs, yep. Just did the mandy one a few weeks ago.
For HNM and full alliance stuff, I guess the general school of thought is that if a nin can tank it but can't evade (due to crazy Godly accuracy), then a war/nin would prolly be better.

[Voila!]

Unless they kite...

When people kite HNMs it's because melee damage is just feeding them TP which they'll just to drop the bomb and cut the fight early. The only job useful here is a ninja that can kite it in some other direction if/when gravity wears off or something goes wrong.

I'd like to see SE give magic a TP return on the victim.

[Gryff]

Originally posted by Voila!
Unless they kite...

When people kite HNMs it's because melee damage is just feeding them TP which they'll just to drop the bomb and cut the fight early. The only job useful here is a ninja that can kite it in some other direction if/when gravity wears off or something goes wrong.

I'd like to see SE give magic a TP return on the victim.

Monsters are kited when their damage is so great it hurts to fight it straight up, or they have abilities that make it dumb to fight straight up, example #1 being KB and example #2 being Kirin.

If something has killer AE attacks then you just send a single or possibly two tanks in to fight it straight up and have all your DDs at range.

[Russta]

Originally posted by Gryff
If something has killer AE attacks then you just send a single or possibly two tanks in to fight it straight up and have all your DDs at range.

And number one example for this is Faust.

[Lmnop]

Magic does give tp. See: Apple Pie.

[Voila!]

Obviously not enough to trigger any sort of AE or WS.

[Lmnop]

I searched and searched for the thread with Apple Pie proving it but I'm pretty terrible at search functions... find it yourself.

Anyway, you can see yourself that when someone nukes you, you gain 5 tp. that's more than a melee hit so reason stands that an opponent would gain more than from a melee attack. But then again, we're dealing with S-E.

[ZQM]

Actually, most HNMs have an automatic-TP build, allowing them to do an ability whenever. Giving TP to a HNM isn't really a problem...not sure where you heard that :sweat:

Also, I disagree about Ninja being the only "useful" kiter. There are two things important when kiting. Utsusemi and emnity. Ninja has one more shadow, but WAR has +15 emnity from AF alone. WAR is best kiter, in my opinion.

Well, this is obviously going to be different for NMs that rape blink with an AOE (i.e. Faust...but he's only one I can think of at the moment).

[Voila!]

Using up shadows means you aren't losing hate to the hits though. So a properly equipped Nin could be better or as efficient then a warrior.

I found the thread with the magic and TP gain. From my experiences a monster has never reacted from any sort of magic other then hate shift. If they did, there would be more mages being hit with bomb toss and screwdriver and the other assorted enemy weapon skills.

I don't really think it's fair that mages become so important end game. I've kited my share of monsters though and it definately has its benefits over head to head combat.

I was able to kite the Prom-Mea boss recently, and we took little to no damage at first. Once we got it to half health the summoner opened up with Astral Flow and I had to keep it still. I engaged it to keep the hate and it was then that it used the sweep WS and killed me two hits later.

I probably wouldn't be so uninformed if Apple Pie made some sort of concentrated guide instead of hiding all his numbers in deep posts.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Voila!
Using up shadows means you aren't losing hate to the hits though. So a properly equipped Nin could be better or as efficient then a warrior.

Properly equipped? WAR has more emnity options the NIN.

And 1 shadow doesn't mean very much at all.

I'm also unsure what you mean by "Using up shadows means you aren't losing hate to the hits though". If you get caught without utsusemi, you're most likely dead. As for hate...emnity > all for kiting. The only way you get hate from this is by job abilities (and magic if your job has it).

[Voila!]

Let's put this into perspective for you. It's called kiting because the monster is strung around aimlessly so it doesn't hit anybody because it's normal attacks are incredibly strong.

If you think a ninja wont last a single hit without Utsu, what about the mages? When they get hate they also run until another mage takes hate or the tank pulls it off them. There's ample time to recast Utsu I/N when it falls. This is why they cast Gravity, to give them time to run and somebody else time to take the hate.

Enmity isn't everything because you're aren't always supposed to have hate. What happens if your shadows fall was War/Nin when you're kiting and you have all your warrior enimty? Bang, boom, straight to the moon. If your shadows fall and it chases after some other member, recast and retry.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Voila!
Enmity isn't everything because you're aren't always supposed to have hate. What happens if your shadows fall was War/Nin when you're kiting and you have all your warrior enimty? Bang, boom, straight to the moon. If your shadows fall and it chases after some other member, recast and retry.

It's called Gravity. If it's on another member, you shouldn't be recasting...you should be getting it off of them. Recasting is quite easy with the mob on you when it's slow as hell.

[Moo]

Originally posted by Voila!
When people kite HNMs it's because melee damage is just feeding them TP which they'll just to drop the bomb and cut the fight early.

Originally posted by Voila!
Let's put this into perspective for you. It's called kiting because the monster is strung around aimlessly so it doesn't hit anybody because it's normal attacks are incredibly strong.

If you spent as much time playing the game as you do trolling these boards, maybe people would give a shit about what you have to say. Instead you just regurgitate what other people have already said, adding in your own misinformation and often contradicting yourself in the process.

[Blood Red Poet]

Being a troll is better than being a flaming troll, Moo.

Warrior/Ninja is perfect for CoP Mission M1-3(Mea, Dem, and Holla bosses) and work best in pairs(along with a Ninja is just as well). On CoP M2-5, is where you stall two of foes while a WAR/NIN or NIN tanks the one the damage dealers are focusing on. Thats as far as I got... but I think WAR/NIN and NIN is a good combo for CoP missions.