Sarashi...

[Russta]

I've been trying to find out just how much haste Sarashi would give and after looking around I'm even more confused than when I started. I figured it would follow the same logic the other sub job relient latent effects do and move it up a level effectively giving me 5% Haste. This idea was supported by Bigokk's testing, however someone else who gives some pretty deep input on FFXIO, Apple Pie, said that Sarashi is useless on this thread (second post from bottom). What to believe? Hopefully enough people here have tested it and can give their own verdict on it and I can judge from that. I don't much fancy wasting 300k on a slow selling item to find out it's own 1% Haste.

The main reason I want this belt is when I'm soloing really low stuff the Accuracy+10 from Life Belt seems to be totally wasted and no other belt seems worth it. If not Sarashi, I'm open to suggestions.

[ZQM]

I can't input on Sarashi. I do, however, use Mithran Stone when soloing. DEF:5 +3 Evasion +3 ACC. Evasion is the most important stat when soling, in my opinion, and it adds the most evasion of a belt that a WAR can wear. The added accuracy also doesn't hurt, since it's still possible to miss a TW mob.

Well, there's also Speed Belt, but I think 6 mil is a bit much.

[Voila!]

I'd go with Bigokk for obvious reasons. Would you believe a Warrior so completely crazy in love with his job as to learn everything he can about it, or some cynical Red Mage with nothing positive to say?

[Patchinko]

Based on the fact that Grendal is probably the most highly thought of RDM on this forum, and moreover on the fact that he is known for his proving things via a stat parser, I would take his opinion of it very seriously.

Bigokk said he timed his hits using a stopwatch. If someone would be willing to redo the test using a parser, one could determine damage over time and that would give you a very solid result.

To make the test realistic, it would probably be best to do it against something far below your level, so you don't spend any time casting Utsusemi, Defender, etc. and to do the same type of mob from the same area a few different times both with and without it on, because mob levels will vary in any given area. Also, make sure not to put on another belt when you do the tests without the Sarashi, or at least not one that would effect your accuracy or damage output.

I'm interested as well because my WAR/NIN is lvl29 right now.

If anyone has a Sarashi and would be willing to use a parser to record damage over time, that would be quite helpful. If not, and if I can get my hands on one (not likely on Remora), I'll do it myself. ^^

[Baradak]

Originally posted by Voila!
I'd go with Bigokk for obvious reasons. Would you believe a Warrior so completely crazy in love with his job as to learn everything he can about it, or some cynical Red Mage with nothing positive to say?

Little thing called bias, my friend.

[ruff0123]

The rumor flying around in the JP community is that Sarashi is 1% enchance dual wield and Suppanomimi is 10% enchance wield. I've bought the belt and tested it before and it's hardly noticable so I would suggest you save your gil.

[bonovoxpsu]

Originally posted by Voila!
I'd go with Bigokk for obvious reasons. Would you believe a Warrior so completely crazy in love with his job as to learn everything he can about it, or some cynical Red Mage with nothing positive to say?

lol - coming from someone who just flames people and has nothing relavent to say. awesome.

compared to other waist items, the sarashi is pretty worthless. definitely not worth the 300k it runs for on midgard.

apple pie might be the most informed person on these forums. you do nothing but flame people and annoy the boards.

[Lmnop]

Yes, it's true that Apple Pie does some amazing research, but from these 2 different threads, we see Bigokk's testing and a thread devoted to the testing of the sarashi. On the other thread, Apple Pie simply says 'By the way, 1%' and doesn't give us any data. He likely has tested it, but we haven't seen it.
My vote's with Bigokk (who admits this isn't the best way to test) until Apple Pie comes in and shows us otherwise.

[greysenn]

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...4&pagenumber=9

Applepie posted some numbers here for the sashari. Sorry its in the middle of a big stupid thread though. It should be about 1/3 to 1/2way down the page

[Voila!]

Sorry, he really loses out there in the end when he fails to tie in TP gain/loss to his concern with delay. It's cool how he just pulls numbers out of nowhere though, I like that.

Bigokk gets points by explaining everything in his study. Apple Pie loses points by trying to translate a japanese site. The 11:15 post wasn't even there.

Favoritism isn't the only thing that can distort the facts, by the way.

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Voila!
Sorry, he really loses out there in the end when he fails to tie in TP gain/loss to his concern with delay. It's cool how he just pulls numbers out of nowhere though, I like that.

Bigokk gets points by explaining everything in his study. Apple Pie loses points by trying to translate a japanese site. The 11:15 post wasn't even there.

Favoritism isn't the only thing that can distort the facts, by the way.

First, Apple refered to the 11:55 post. Note:

Originally posted by Apple Pie
Rugal, here's how they find Sarashi only enhances 1% of DW.

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Stingray/20041008 Look at the one at 11:55

It was found at our THF thread but I cannot find the old log. That website above wrote the summary and it should be enough to prove it.

Second, I believe Apple made a mistake (as you did) in typing. I believe he meant to type "11:51". If you read all of Apple's post, he also mentions that it's 4:15 in the morning and he was tired. I can forgive a typo under those circumstances, and seeing as you either made the same typo, or the more grevious error of simply misreading it, you should be able to forgive it as well.

For the most part Voila!, I find your posts to be enflamatory and obnoxious. I haven't seen you add anything to the discussion.


As for me, I prefer AP's method of using straight math to find simple results. I for one concluded that assuming all the results he quoted were correct, he did the math correctly (run the numbers yourself if you don't believe him, and if he did it incorrectly, do them yourself and post it), and seeing as such, concluded that Sarashi is indeed a 1% haste.

Now, going on Sarashi being 1% haste, it still could be a worthwhile investment. Why? Well, you have to compare it to what other people wear in the same slot. Seeing as you're talking about an application on most likely TW mobs, I would say that unless you found a belt that increased your damage output by more than 1%, adding 1% more attacks would be more beneficial. However, I find it highly unlikely that Sarashi would indeed end up being better. Why? Well, 1% faster attacks means that if you attacked 100 times, you'd get 1 additional attack. So, in order for sarashi to be more effective, in those 100 attacks, whatever you chose to wear instead would have to add the equivalent of 1 attack. Meaning, if you chose to wear a belt that increased your average damage by just *5* damage, over the course of 100 attacks, you'd have increased your damage output over that timeframe by 500 damage - well more than any job could hope to do in 1 attack.


At the same time, 1% haste *could* be a benefit if the fights are just the right amount of time where just getting that slight benefit would allow you to finish your mob and move on to the next one before you would've without it. However, I highly doubt that this is the case.


Russta, normally, when fighting things much lower than you, you should concentrate on boosting STR and ATT more than anything else. The haste won't really help you all that much unless you manage to amass a whole lot of it (To put that 1% into perspective, DW1 yields ~10% haste, and the spell Haste yields ~12.5%) to make any difference. You'd be better off simply increasing the amount of damage you do per hit significantly, and in doing so, decrease the amount of time you need to kill a mob. Btw, if you normally take ~30 seconds (meaningless number chosen for ease of math) to kill a monster, all you would have to do is do more damage to kill it 3 tenths of a second faster, and you would have been better than 1% haste. Even 5% haste - 1.5 seconds faster, and you've surpassed the Sarashi.



Then again, all my thoughts are merely logical theory. Prove it wrong with Parses.

[Lmnop]

hmm Apple Pie's information is a very logical approach and seems pretty sound. 'Reverse Engineering' as Imac said, does a good job of showing us how the game mechanics work.
And in that thread IGN thread where Bigokk posted his results, someone else mentioned his capped out accuracy and I do believe this could be the case. With Sarashi on, he did on average, 15.993% more damage (my numbers may be way off... give me no credit). I would say this is neither a 1% or 5% increase but more haste = more chances for double attack to fire and that will screw up any parsing methinks.

I do have one concern though: Apple Pie's friend that tested this was aiming to get 5 tp. But 5tp is the bare minimum for tp gain. My comprehension skills may be low but that seems like it would create a window where all results could be proven right. i.e. I have 2 daggers with 20 delay each (you wish, thieves) now I can make a nifty formula to show that 40 delay will always yield 5%tp gain.
Soooo many questions!!!:spin:

[Voila!]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM

Second, I believe Apple made a mistake (as you did) in typing. I believe he meant to type "11:51". If you read all of Apple's post, he also mentions that it's 4:15 in the morning and he was tired. I can forgive a typo under those circumstances, and seeing as you either made the same typo, or the more grevious error of simply misreading it, you should be able to forgive it as well.

For the most part Voila!, I find your posts to be enflamatory and obnoxious. I haven't seen you add anything to the discussion.

I find your posts to me imflammable and lame. Continue talking out of your ass while blindly puting your trust into a thread with a flawed conclusion, it's entertaining to know you have no clue what you're talking about.

[DM337]

Originally posted by Voila!
I find your posts to me imflammable and lame. Continue talking out of your ass while blindly puting your trust into a thread with a flawed conclusion, it's entertaining to know you have no clue what you're talking about.

I slipped on the all the irony in your post and broke my arm. Expect a lawsuit.

[neighbortaru]

Originally posted by DM337
I slipped on the all the irony in your post and broke my arm. Expect a lawsuit.

Haha.