The taru tank. (rant-ish)

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Uroboros
I'd pick the Taru. I don't like downtime.

Tarus are excellent exp PLDs, maybe the best.

I agree. Not only that, if you're above lv30 or so, you'll find that taru Paladins have had to deal with racial prejudice all the time, and as such, take great pride in showing that Taru's make perfectly good Paladins. That tends to mean they have above average gear, use food, and can time cures excessively well. Elvaans riding on things like blind invites because their Elvaan tend to be different. However, after a certain level (I'd say around lv50 or so), all paladins tend to have great gear, since the majority of it isn't that expensive, and most Paladins are tanks because they take pride in what they do. There are exceptions like everything else...but the higher you get, the angrier paladins get at the fact that Ninja's "are so much better" (most paladins believe that much more strongly than anyone else. Ironically, most Ninja's think that Paladins are much better at everything. Typical penis envy inherent in competition with non clear "winner"). This drives paladin's to have the best gear that they can get.


Anyways, I also personally prefer Taru Paladins to other races. Why? Because when the inevitable "Oh Shit" occurence happens, Taru's usually have more MP in reserve to deal with it. Yes, there's more time before he's at full MP again, but it's usually before the mages recover, so his extra recovery time is usually moot. In addition, Taru PLD's work exceptionally well with the BLM/BRD/RDM backline that is frequently popular. The same is true of Ninja's, but Paladins usually require too much healing to be feasible without a WHM's higher Regens.

[Ozymandis]

For a paladin (or any tank) during most emergency situations, you want extra HP more than extra MP.

Tarus are the worst paladin, although you could make a good argument for Mithra too. Elvaan/Galka are the best.

The very best exp paladin is going to be the one who takes the least amount of damage (and maybe does the most, too, PLDs do engage and any damage helps quicken exp). Having a 14-15 point VIT advantage over Taru is a huge bonus for Galka PLDs. Think of the number of times you're hit in an hour. That's going to be noticeable damage reduction almost every single hit... over the course of a party that's a lot of MP that the healers have been saved.

Taru PLDs are decent, even though they're the worst... but I wouldn't invite one if it were my group except as a last resort. The extra MP is wasted after 41, mostly, you're limited by your MP refresh rate, and hate control is a matter of skill more than anything. A Galka or Elvaan PLD who holds hate acceptably has no downside.

There's safety concerns as well.

[Daziz]

My personal opinion is taru make the best plds because they have great Mp they can hold hate better with the Mp they got and still be able to give less downtime i aggre with AtraposBLM.

Having a galka pld that runs out of mp pretty quick just takes the whms mp more which offers more downtime which is not to fun post 55 since the exp needed per lv is a hell of alot higher.

The whole pld or nin thing ya some people perfer different but i hate having nin tanks ok they dont take as much mp but its boring just sitting there casting haste after haste and a bar spell every now and then and a few cures when the nin loses utsumi (i know i spelt that wrong but i dont care to much).

Mp = Key to hate control and key to keeping u a live.

U say pld dmg helps but plds dmg sucks only good thing is sprits within but if it was not for that and any dmg helps lets just have the whm and blm melee as well thats extra dmg and they will do just as much as pld.

Also post 70 there is pld gear that decreases str but increases vit a hell of alot a pld with that gear is goin to do basicly no dmg but take alot of hits.

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Ozymandis
For a paladin (or any tank) during most emergency situations, you want extra HP more than extra MP.

Tarus are the worst paladin, although you could make a good argument for Mithra too. Elvaan/Galka are the best.

The very best exp paladin is going to be the one who takes the least amount of damage (and maybe does the most, too, PLDs do engage and any damage helps quicken exp). Having a 14-15 point VIT advantage over Taru is a huge bonus for Galka PLDs. Think of the number of times you're hit in an hour. That's going to be noticeable damage reduction almost every single hit... over the course of a party that's a lot of MP that the healers have been saved.

Taru PLDs are decent, even though they're the worst... but I wouldn't invite one if it were my group except as a last resort. The extra MP is wasted after 41, mostly, you're limited by your MP refresh rate, and hate control is a matter of skill more than anything. A Galka or Elvaan PLD who holds hate acceptably has no downside.

There's safety concerns as well.

Responses like this astound me with their ignorance, especially coming from someone who has breached lv60.


First of all, ask any paladin (or whm for that matter) how much damage difference Taru's take. At the most extreme, a taru might take 5-10 damage more max, and 0-5 damage more on average. I knew a taru paladin (Hamasaki) who had 12 VIT *more* than the same level Hume paladin (nameless), had only 100~ less hp, and nearly 300 more MP. What's bad about that, exactly?

Second of all, the majority of people who have EXP'd with a good Taru PLD have agreed that they make *by far* the best EXP paladins. They don't take noticeably more damage, they don't do noticeably less damage, and the fact that they have less HP is more than made up by the fact that they have more MP - think of it this way, every 24 mp they have more than another race is 180 hp more that a Taru effectively has. And no, it doesn't add more downtime because the taru PLD will NEVER BE RESTING LONGER THAN THE MAGES. Yes, if you compared the 2 paladins side by side, the taru will rest longer, but in the setting of the PARTY, that difference is irrelevant due to the fact that the mages will be using more mp, and despite a faster regen rate, will still need to rest longer.

Thirdly, for any type of blink tank (be it Nin/War, War/Nin, or otherwise), HP is just as irrelevant as MP is. Why? Because you the entire reason that you can tank is because YOU AREN'T TAKING ANY DAMAGE. In that case, you could argue that a Taru, with higher DEX, will hit more frequently, therefore do more damage, therefore hold hate better. However, the stat differences are minimal, so this arguement is just as immaterial as any of those above. Again, you could also argue that a Taru has higher AGI, so will evade better than a Galka/Elvaan, but here also the stat differences are minimal, particularly as you get into the upper levels.

Lastly, HNMing is the *only* time that a Taru tank might die more frequently than a different tank. However, I have no direct experience proving one way or another, so I will refrain from commenting here. I will, however, say that on Midgardsormr, the same tank I mentioned before (Hamasaki) is currently lv75, and I watched him tank Fafnir with no deaths, and not really any trouble. So it's possible, at least.

[Voila!]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Thirdly, for any type of blink tank (be it Nin/War, War/Nin, or otherwise), HP is just as irrelevant as MP is. Why? Because you the entire reason that you can tank is because YOU AREN'T TAKING ANY DAMAGE. In that case, you could argue that a Taru, with higher DEX, will hit more frequently, therefore do more damage, therefore hold hate better. However, the stat differences are minimal, so this arguement is just as immaterial as any of those above. Again, you could also argue that a Taru has higher AGI, so will evade better than a Galka/Elvaan, but here also the stat differences are minimal, particularly as you get into the upper levels.

Responses like this astound me with their ignorance.

[Daziz]

AtraposBLM great post.

On kujata i see alot of plds with dark staffs for when they rest which is very handy i use one for my whm all the time when resting it helps alot.

Not all plds have dark staffs but alot do especially taru plds that i have ptied with there is always a brd or rdm in pty as well past 40 and at 41 refresh is very nice, Plds perfer refresh to ballads since it last longer.

So even if a pld runs low on mp with dark staff + refresh or ballad they will be at max befor any whm or blm that only uses half there mp.

Dark staff has droped in price so much since i got mine and i think more and more plds r getting them there 100k last time i checked but when i got mine i think it was 180k and i got that at that price because there was so many on sell.

I have had a guy on the server saying dark staffs r useless and not worth the money but i dont even think this guy has a job over 50 he was bragging on about how his rdm is like lv70.

This is a War tread anyway no matter how it work a good player can always make up for there weaknesses. I was lving today in Crawlers nest with 2 drks both were 2 lvs higher and me one with scytes and one with great sword i was using great axe my dmg was doin teh same and sometimes more and darks acc sucks big time.

We taru rock we can match any race at any job and even surpass any race.

Tarutaru - Impossible to gauge.

Anyone that sayz other wise is just jealous and more than likly never ptied with a proper taru melee.

We taru were not the strongest race and as some races think were all this we got uber str they get a little slack on gear no point got for that extra bit of str there we got lots of it. Taru melee pride r self on being the best we can we will spend alot of time to get that extra bit of str or vit no matter what stat we need we will always try and get the best stuff to increase even if its a extra point we will try and get it.

At first i started melee because i though it would be a challange to get melee to work very well with a taru since r str is so poor but with alot of work we can increase r weakness so we can be at r fullist at 52 with my drg i had +17 str i worked very hard to get all that gear for drg just to get the best i could and i could probly have got a little extra str there but like another +2 if i worked a little harder but there was no need for it my greatest thing i did with drg was lving in gariel cital in the basement i was lv 50drg/war berserk - mithkabob - double thrust chamber beetle 450dmg i loved it when i did that and im really happy that i pushed it that far. i had the same gear which gave me +17str i still have extra dex there too and Vit.

Drg is my fave job out of every job i have played and i have all but 4 jobs around lv40 the 4 jobs not at that lv is nin with i refuse to lv and rdm which im not to interested in at the moment and brd which is lv8 and bst which is lv15 and i have signa and hope rings and noble ribbon and bird whistle when i hit lv17 with bst and equip my signa i will have +17 chr the only reason i am lving bst is because i have a duo set up with a ls member.

A taru's pride in there job is a wonderful thing.

[Ozymandis]

Originally posted by Daziz
Having a galka pld that runs out of mp pretty quick just takes the whms mp more which offers more downtime which is not to fun post 55 since the exp needed per lv is a hell of alot higher.

The whole pld or nin thing ya some people perfer different but i hate having nin tanks ok they dont take as much mp but its boring just sitting there casting haste after haste and a bar spell every now and then and a few cures when the nin loses utsumi (i know i spelt that wrong but i dont care to much).

The PLD's job is not to be a healer. It's to take as little damage as possible, and to hold hate. Also to do damage, not much but some. Tarus are good at holding hate and doing a lot of their own healing, but with low HP, low VIT, and low STR, they're inadequate at the other aspects of being a PLD.

Let me tell you how you can make yourself useful in a party with a ninja- throw out a Flash every now and again. Don't spam it, that might cause hate problems, but a few casts will help make life easier for your tank

[Ozymandis]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Responses like this astound me with their ignorance, especially coming from someone who has breached lv60.

Sorry, I've never had a really good Taru tank that impressed me. The best PLDs I've ever seen in action were Galka and Elvaan.

First of all, ask any paladin (or whm for that matter) how much damage difference Taru's take. At the most extreme, a taru might take 5-10 damage more max, and 0-5 damage more on average. I knew a taru paladin (Hamasaki) who had 12 VIT *more* than the same level Hume paladin (nameless), had only 100~ less hp, and nearly 300 more MP. What's bad about that, exactly?

The small difference in damage per hit will add up over time. Obviously individual hits won't show a large difference, but eventually the Taru will have taken a lot more damage.

That Hume PLD must have had awful gear

Second of all, the majority of people who have EXP'd with a good Taru PLD have agreed that they make *by far* the best EXP paladins. They don't take noticeably more damage, they don't do noticeably less damage, and the fact that they have less HP is more than made up by the fact that they have more MP - think of it this way, every 24 mp they have more than another race is 180 hp more that a Taru effectively has. And no, it doesn't add more downtime because the taru PLD will NEVER BE RESTING LONGER THAN THE MAGES. Yes, if you compared the 2 paladins side by side, the taru will rest longer, but in the setting of the PARTY, that difference is irrelevant due to the fact that the mages will be using more mp, and despite a faster regen rate, will still need to rest longer.

Oh god not the "effective HP" argument.

That MP>HP theory is only relevant for one class- beastmaster.

Having more HP has one benefit*, but it's a big one- survivability. Against mobs that have big special attacks, a tank needs as much HP as he can get. In link situations, a tank needs as much HP as he can get. It's crucial for a tank to be able to survive. When the tank dies it's likely that others will follow.


*Well, two- Spirits Within.

Thirdly, for any type of blink tank (be it Nin/War, War/Nin, or otherwise), HP is just as irrelevant as MP is. Why? Because you the entire reason that you can tank is because YOU AREN'T TAKING ANY DAMAGE. In that case, you could argue that a Taru, with higher DEX, will hit more frequently, therefore do more damage, therefore hold hate better. However, the stat differences are minimal, so this arguement is just as immaterial as any of those above. Again, you could also argue that a Taru has higher AGI, so will evade better than a Galka/Elvaan, but here also the stat differences are minimal, particularly as you get into the upper levels.

Have you ever partied with a blink tank? You're a 70+ BLM, so you must have. Here's a little secret:

Blink tanks do get hit sometimes.

Ideally, a ninja will be able to keep shadows up all the time. Realistically, there will be times when double attacks or just bad luck will leave you exposed.

This is why HP is CRITICAL for a ninja tank. We take heavy damage (with my equipment setup I have no defense whatsoever) so all you can do is survive until your timers are ready.

Tarus have the same DEX as Hume and Galka. The only race who they surpass in that area is Elvaan. And Elvaan have a lot more strength... Taru does the least damage as ninja. In their favour, as you said, higher agility. Even with that, Tarus are arguably the worst ninja.

[tdh]

I've partied with Taru tanks before. They were never the main tank, but I have partied with a few. In those occurances, they did very well at back up tanking. Admittedly they were "we need a 6th member, just find somebody so we can level," but they turned out to be an asset to the team.

I've never partied with a Taru PLD, however I have watched a friend party with a Taru PLD. They were Rank 7, and had a Lv.70 BLM, and Lv.50 WHM. They had plenty of gil to support them, and plenty of know how. With 3 trigger happy BLMs in the group, he held hate with no problems at all. If I ever had the chance, I'd pick that Taru PLD over any other tank just from seeing him in action.

But I must confess to selecting certain races in certain jobs while searching for party members. You check Jeuno for a tank, you see two PLDs, one's Elvaan, the other Taru. Both the same level, same rank, neither have anything compelling listed in their search comments, so we grab the Elvaan.

We know that Elvaans have higher HP and VIT over a Taru. The fact that the Taru may have 150+ more MP then the Elvaan doesn't really come into consideration.

It's not really fair that we do this, but we do. Same sort of thing goes on when we select mages. You see a Taru SMN/WHM and you select them over an Elvaan or Galkan WHM/BLM. Hell I've been kicked from parties as an Elvaan RDM before. Nevermind I have MND+20 or INT+17 as needed, and plenty of MP+ equipment, as stated in my search comments. I've joined parties to hear the leader say another player is complaining that an Elvaan mage was invited at all. After 10 minutes of fighting that same person is singing my praises.

And there's where the last train of thought comes into play. A Taru PLD has to do a lot to impress upon their party members. In a way they have to have a chip on their shoulder. They think that they were only invited because nobody else was around, and the party already worries that they will fail. So they come in with kick ass armor, and kick ass skill. Doing everything they can to make them think they are the greatest PLD on the server. I know that's the same mind set I take into being an Elvaan RDM.

[Uroboros]

Topic hurting eyes, must stop checking.

I will say I like Galka PLD about as much as I like the flu. Sorry to gank an LJ photo but this sums up my thoughts on Galka PLD.

[Jaggywaggy]

War-I've yet to see a good taru warrior. Even the one in all HQ eqiupment got owned and was of high rank. HP,VIT,STR are the most importent stats, and while it's possible to overcome a weakness, there isn't enough equipment slots to overcome 3 MAJOR weaknesses.

Ninja-I like ninja tanks no matter the race but taru would be my last choice. In la la land ninjas never ever get hit or a 2nd mob(link/add). However FFXI isn't a nice little ideal place. When they get caught without utsusemi up or a 2nd mob I'd definitely want the ninja with 100s more HPs.

Pld- I have nothing against inviting taru plds at all. However I disagree with taru being the best, I feel galka is. If I saw 2 or more plds seeking from different races, and all things remained constant except their race, well it would depend on the current setup. With a hate controller such as thf, plds can afford to expand less mp, making galka the best option and elvaan equally darn good. But pld is one of those jobs that in xp situations can be played very well with any race because every pld is better in different situations. Remember though it's 2 major advantages(HP+VIT) and a minor advantage(str) vs just one major advantage(mp). You figure out what's overall better. Also some other things...

-0-10 damage difference a hit can really add up in battles that aren't short. Such as battles inbetween those lvl 3 SC during tp building. In the battles inbetween that last a decent amount of time when tp is being built, a taru is going to take far more damage over time. Battles shouldn't last long enough that a pld had to use all his MP to keep hate anyway.

-Pld damage might not be a ton but it's actually worth mentioning. They have a 4/5 str rating surprisingly, and total damage per battle they can score 5-10% out if they're above your average player.

-While yes with tons of def and vit gear the disadvantage of taru can be overcomed somewhat, a galka's mp problems can equally be eased a bit. Starting off battles with HP>MP rings alone gives an extra 40-50 worth of mp to use at the start. They could get more mp if they wanted in other pieces. And after expanding the mp given in equips, switch over to their vit and all def equips.

The best pld I've seen was a galka which did what I just said. Started with +mp gear and after using it up switched to vit gear. He had absolutely no hate problems, and could even hold hate off a 300-500 SATA+VP+SC if I did it midbattle off the DD. This was in the late 40s and should speak for itself. If the galka pld is holding hate fine as is, what good is extra mps he'll never need? Assuming the main healer has more than enough mp.

Besides 75% of the people on these boards and in the game are biased against galka anyway. Most people are pro mithra,elvaan, or tarutaru anyway. The humes can't win debates with all middle of the road stats but we never get owned either
Then there are galka. By far the least liked race overall, so taru>galka replies really don't surprise me.

Taru-It's no fair!!! We can overcome hp,str, and vit advantages with only 12 equipment slots while maintaining our strengths! Everyone should invite us first.

Galka-... Ya I know what you mean, I bet I could go all out mp which is only one disadvantage to overcome and pull the hard route off too.

Everyone else- OMG noobzer, wtf R U talking abuot smelly galka?

I see it too much, everyone encouraging the taru most of the time saying it can be done effectively to pull the hard combo off with the right equipment. Then these people turn around and spit in the galkas' faces trying the same things, usually.

[Russta]

Seven pages arguing over something that's all based on personal opinions and past experiences

[JungBunny]

Voila! I wish you will silence your trap.. your giving us mithras a bad name ; ;

My b/f is a taru.. and a 75 Ninja.. I lvled with him all the way through with many jobs. His PLD is 55 (quit because that kind of tanking did not interest him), and his warrior is currently level 64 (hes leveling this on the side for just fun).

I'm a mithra, if you couldnt tell ><, but when we began the game our roles were reversed. He was a Tarutaru WHM, I was a mithra Warrior (by the way mithra warriors/plds are about as weak (stats wise) as tarus if you want to go there). We switched later on because I enjoyed the magic side of things and he enjoyed the melee side of things, specifically tanking..

We talked it over and we were ready to actually switch races almost, except he was going to go hume male, and me tarutaru female because they seemed like the best races for the jobs we wanted to play. But we later decided not to bother because we wanted to be the races we wanted to play (he was a gnome warrior in EQ and the first on our server to do any major tanking on big bosses and the first gnome warrior to reach any high level when they kept increasing the cap).

Well going from 1-75 with a tarutaru ninja has its advantages and its disadvantages.

First thing is first though.. He has only been oneshotted as a ninja 0 times. Never have I seen him die from one special attack or anything.

Second, his dmg is really well, a little bit higher than our friend whom is a mithra ninja.

Third, he keeps hate really well. Any ninja will lose hate depending on how extreme the party is going with dmg, like a rng spamming arrows will get hate even if the ninja tank was a galka or elvaan.

Fourth, he dodges a lot, and I mean a lot of attacks. Perhaps its his equipment or perhaps its his race + skill.. i'm more on the skill side.


Voila! I gotta tell you.. any ninja will get hit, if you didnt know, i'm assuming your possibly below level 40 maybe even 50, just based on your opinions.

Warriors, it is obvious that any other race will do more dmg with the same equipment than a taru. But your leading people to think that a taru warrior will hit for say 30-45dmg with 2 axes, and any other race will hit for 70-100 dmg.. This is obviously false. The dmg difference is probably about 5-10dmg if both warriors had the same equipment.

The only real factor is Hitpoints. There is nothing a taru can do to compensate their low hp to equal that of a galka, same goes for MP if you were talking about galka mages.

Get over yourself Voila!.. Mithra is possibly the worst race to be a tank (minus ninja) if you wanted to play the race card. Just barely surpasses a tarutaru.

[Voila!]

Originally posted by JungBunny
Voila! I gotta tell you.. any ninja will get hit, if you didnt know, i'm assuming your possibly below level 40 maybe even 50, just based on your opinions.

Get over yourself Voila!.. Mithra is possibly the worst race to be a tank (minus ninja) if you wanted to play the race card. Just barely surpasses a tarutaru.

What the?

I'm currently a level 36 thief that does 350+ on normal SATA, and 500+ with SATA VB. If I'm giving Mithra a bad name, the rest of you are too. I don't see how my +15 Dex, +12 Agi, and +4 Str among other things make us look bad. =/

By the way, my arguement was that ninjas would get hit as opposed to one based on ninjas having blink up at all time. I took warrior to thirty first because it get's a lot of invites up until thirty.

From the looks of it your boyfriend is a very skilled player, and my original arguement was taru don't make the best tanks and I stand by it. Your boyfriend would be unstoppable as a hume, elvaan, or galka.

[JungBunny]

Voila.. hes unstoppable already as a taru lol.. being a hume/galka or elvaan will only hinder his ability as a ninja due to tarus high agi..

He rarely gets hit, only when someone else in the party does something that requires him to regain agro and focus on that more than counting shadows. This is rare, and only happened in pickup parties.

I'm glad hes taru.. because nothing is sexier than a tarutaru ninja using blade:ten :X