The taru tank. (rant-ish)

[Voila!]

You've got it all backwards:

Race > Equipment > Skill

Get it right next time.

Just to prove my point, some people include what rare item they bought from the AH and for how much. Why? Equipment > Skill. You won't find any "Black Mandy starts casting Flood. Random Drk casts Stun. Black Mandy's casting is interrupted." Nobody cares, anybody can do a Drk's job, but not everybody can enhance a Drk's job with sniper's rings and whatnot.

It may be: Equipment > Race > Skill. We really shouldn't be trying to compare individual skill though, since you are in a party of six where you rely on your team mates. A may have to keep hate, but he might keep it better if the Blm would lay off the nukes a bit to help him out. It isn't soley on the tank to be sure he/she keeps the hate.

Race is important though, I consantly out SA Elvaans and Galkas. Always and forever. I'd rather have an Elvaan or Galka paladin over a taru one. I've had many taru tanks, and they could hardly keep hate.

[Elsurion]

Nope, he was right.

A taru PLD with good Equipment can do just fine as a Galka PLD. a taru PLD just can't hold a doubble sickleslash very good.

Also skill is more important then race, since the unskilled player ruins exp over time. e.g. THF can't do his maximum output, because the <race> PLD voked/Flashed like mad at beginning, that's around 200 to 400 dmg depending on mob who where wasted. And no drk don't deal that much dmg to compensate this.

[bonovoxpsu]

elsurion, just disregard voila's comments - he's trolling. just trying to anger people into talking to him.

[Voila!]

Actually I've edited my post to be less trolly, you guys sure responded quick though.

[bonovoxpsu]

nope, skill always trumps all those.

how someone uses those skills of that job is more important. always. equipment can ALWAYS outproduce race bonuses.

not everyone is quick on the draw with stun, know how to time a weapon bash, know what spells/enfeebles are needed, know how/when do use certain abilities. not everyone knows how to use equipment to its most effectiveness. not everyone knows how to finish chain5's.

skill always greater then stats. any day of the week.

[Voila!]

My definition of skill is pretty stringent. Knowing when to stun is a matter of timing, and knowing to stun is knoledge. There's no skill in pressing a button and watching your character do all the work. Skill would be having an active effect on the outcome of Stun.

A party as whole would need skill, not individual players.

[Ariagiovanni]

"I've had many taru tanks, and they could hardly keep hate."

That has less to do with the fact that they were taru and more to do with the fact that the rest of the party couldn't control their own hate. A galka PLD is not going to hold more hate than a taru simply because hes a galka.

[Voila!]

You couldn't be more wrong!

The damage the tank does, along with the damage he/she takes translates into hate gain and loss. Tarus take big damage, and do little damage.

I've partied with a certain elvaan paladin a lot, and he can always keep hate off my 120+ damage sneak attack. He does just about as much damage as I do on normal attacks, but takes way less damage.

I partied with a tarutaru paladin who would always lose hate with the same sneak attack I used when partying with the elvaan. It did around the same damage, but I did more damage with normal hits. I could instantly pull hate at any time during the fight with steal. It was pathetic.

They were both casting cure spells, on themselves and on others to keep hate, but the tarutaru just didn't have the home game advantage that the elvaan did (homegame advantage being a race that benefits more as a tank).

Half the tarutaru out there admit that their race sucks at tanking, but the rest of you feel as if I'm threatening your life or something. It's well known fact and always will remain true. Any equipment you purchase to make tanking easier, everybody else will also purchase and still be better at it then you.

Stick to the mage classes.

[Lmnop]

I could say a few nasty things to Voila but I don't see how that would benefit anyone. That said, let's move on:

first off, when Voila defined skill, he defined skill at playing HALO, which is not even remotely close to FF. I'd describe it more as an intuition.
I've played as DD Warrior in a lot of parties with paladins. I've had Pallies of all the races. Sometimes, the paladins could keep hate, but I knew at any given time, my own Voke would pull hate to me (sometimes no voke needed). With other paladins, my vokes are useless. The sad thing is, 90% of paladins fall into the first category that I might as well tank and have the pally just sit back and cure me. My last paladin was very good. Hume paladin (subpar race, I suppose.......), held hate so well that I couldn't save her when whm DCed.
OK, so the point is that skill does exist. While the FPS 'twitchy' skill is where ninja tanks come in, paladins do require a lot of intuition to know when to do what. And in that, race has too little of an effect. Some of my worst plds were galka or elvaan.

[greysenn]

Taru can do just fine at melee/tanks whatever. That being said, their hp makes life more stressful for healers if they are front liners. It also means they get tore up faster if they get hate from something that they shouldn't... but hey, there's gotta be some trade off.

That being said, if you're being noticeably creamed in any jobs performance, it's because of gear/food/level. Skill does play a fair role in timing, skillchains and not getting you killed in the first place, but it's not like it really affects your hit rates, damage taken when you get hit (although it may affect how long you get hit for :p ), etc.

[Voila!]

Originally posted by Lmnop
I could say a few nasty things to Voila but I don't see how that would benefit anyone. That said, let's move on:

first off, when Voila defined skill, he defined skill at playing HALO, which is not even remotely close to FF. I'd describe it more as an intuition.
I've played as DD Warrior in a lot of parties with paladins. I've had Pallies of all the races. Sometimes, the paladins could keep hate, but I knew at any given time, my own Voke would pull hate to me (sometimes no voke needed). With other paladins, my vokes are useless. The sad thing is, 90% of paladins fall into the first category that I might as well tank and have the pally just sit back and cure me. My last paladin was very good. Hume paladin (subpar race, I suppose.......), held hate so well that I couldn't save her when whm DCed.
OK, so the point is that skill does exist. While the FPS 'twitchy' skill is where ninja tanks come in, paladins do require a lot of intuition to know when to do what. And in that, race has too little of an effect. Some of my worst plds were galka or elvaan.

With that being said, a rabbit will not make a good hunting dog will it? By definition, the rabbit must be a dog. Rabbits aren't born with the aggressive trait, and they don't hunt. They hop around, chewing on grass. So for a rabbit to make a good hunting dog, it needs the neccessary state of mind and intuition. Dogs are BORN, they COME WITH, this trait that allows them to chase down animals and rip them to shreds.

So for some one to build up skill in a certain area, they need a foundation to build upon. Tarutarus are given a playground for a foundation, while elvaans and galkas and humes are given acres of land to excell with.

We could argue this to death, but I've got the upper hand and I'm just biding my time. I'd like to see how much longer you guys can stand to be wrong until you start flaming me.

[Uroboros]

Tarus might be the BEST paladin because their huge manapool allows them to be far more cavalier with MP use than any other race, retaining more hate through curing and staying alive just as well, while simultaneously lessening the need for a WHM as PLD pts usually do. As a NIN, it barely matters, Tarus are second in DEX and AGI, both stats important to NIN, and a good NIN in any race gets hit like four times an hour so it doesn't matter. Most NIN hate comes from ninjitsu and not getting hit, doing decent damage (any race as NIN will deal more dmg than any race as PLD regardless) is a bonus. Besides, any race can wear Kote, any race can wear Byrnie, any race can wear snipers.

If anything ok MAYBE Taru WAR/NINs suffer compared to other races, but actually? Not really. Taru WAR/NIN tanks gods for my LS, I know of several other Tarus that tank on other servers, and you can find pics of players like Russta on this very forum talking about tanking as Taru.

And finally, there is one...ONE...melee stat that really matters. Accuracy. Another poster said it best, "when you miss you do no damage and gain no TP." No one gives a shit if any job as any race does ~4 more damage per hit or whatever if they don't hit to begin with. Every race can wear snipers, optical hat, +ACC weapons, lifebelt, whatever, and the +/- dex component of certain races vs. others means basically fuck-all in the end, in the end every race wears at least +50 ACC or more and every race does basically the same damage. In the end the only meaningful racial differences are HP/MP, and if anything MP is a much huger divide than HP. HP is pretty easily overcome. MP you need abjuration.

In conclusion you're wrong. Sorry.

[Voila!]

Uh-huh...

Tarutaru Pld- Loses so much hate from the massive amounts of damage that healing really doesn't help with keeping the hate. In this situation it might be best to let an Elvaan Whm tank because death = no hate.

Tarutaru Nin- Are you shitting me? Go chang eyour job to whm. You have NOTHING to hold hate, and besides a flimsy provoke, NOTHING to gain hate.

It's like you people are REALLY retarded. Somebody needs to donate their car to Melwood so I can get payed for teaching this special learning program.

[hoboman]

Originally posted by Voila!
I don't like Taru warriors, they get one shotted too often. I had a party where every leveled twice but the taru war because he INSISTED on tanking the greater pugils and was continuously being screwdrivered.

Fortunately for me I don't run into the taru tank too often because it's me who tanks. I'm a mithra and I tank well. No single shot deaths and I hit pretty hard to boot.

:mad: fuck you.... im taru WAR and i tank better than some of these shitty PLD with MNK sub
i have had NO problem getting to 54 so t(^.^t) you

[hoboman]

Originally posted by Voila!
Tanking equipment is relatively inexpensive because there isn't as many tanks as there are damage dealers. People will invite tanking classes just because they're tanking classes with no regard for race.

Taru should stick to what they're good at.

BTW... Taru are good at any Job if they know what they are doing, Dipshit.... your just one a cocky person who thinks galka HAVE to be MNK or elvaan HAVE to be WAR and taru HAVE to play mage .. well i got news for you... ive seen some galka mage who own the shit out of taru mages
and taru melee/tanks who own the shit out of any other race