The taru tank. (rant-ish)

[Ariagiovanni]

Lazy? No.

The fact is that a PLD that heals himself well allows for Clear Mind to really kick in and allow us to regen even more MP. I'm not lazy in the least... efficient, yes. The fact of the matter is also that a Hume, Mithra, or Taru PLD is more efficient in the sense of helping out healing. A galka and elvaan will have more VIT and HP but when it comes down to healing they are left behind. You can argue that all you want, but that is how it works. Please get your facts straight before you claim that I "don't like to heal". If I didn't like to heal I would not have taken WHM to 75.

[Karinya]

Not every monster is a scorpion. You don't HAVE to keep the tank's HP out of the yellow all the time - and in fact, healing too much too early can cause hate problems as well as MP inefficiency. Especially with PLD tanks, who can gain more hate by healing themselves - unless it hits for 0 because you just healed them first.

Of course you want to keep them high enough to avoid being one-shotted. But some mobs don't have a real one-shot threat - crabs, for example - so there's no reason the WHM couldn't rest some MP for a bit, particularly if the tank is a PLD of one of the non-gimp-MP races. (If the mob can disable the WHM - mandy sleep, antican silence - then you have to consider that a threat that you should keep the tank's HP up for - they have to survive until you can recover. But you can sometimes avoid those attacks anyway.) Self-healing is one of the main benefits of a PLD tank over WAR or NIN (both for the HP it restores, and for the hate it gains) and it would be silly not to take advantage of it.

There are a lot of WHMs that spam cures whenever the tank drops below 95% HP, and don't cast anything else to save MP for cures. They are simply bad WHMs. It's possible for a party to succeed with a WHM like that, but it's much harder than when you have a WHM that uses all their spells that are effective in a given situation, and knows how much cure you need at a given time. If you ever pay attention to what your WHM is doing and how well the party is going, you will start noticing the relationship.

I think the main reason WHMs don't want to cast more than they have to is that when the puller has to wait, it is usually because the WHM is low on mp. Nobody waits for the RDM, you rarely need to wait for the PLD, the BLM can just sit out the first 30 seconds if he's low - but few people are willing to pull when the WHM is low (with good reason). Therefore WHMs try to avoid getting that low in the first place. I'm not trying to excuse not keeping up Haste or something like that, but it *is* possible to heal too aggressively (especially when a PLD is involved) and good WHMs will avoid it.

There's no question that taru WAR tanks have an uphill battle - hell, *any* WAR tank has an uphill battle, and taru would benefit a lot more from being PLD instead of WAR tank. But a skilled player with good equipment can pull it off. The idea that 2-3 points of VIT makes a big difference to someone wearing 15+ points of VIT gear plus food is just silly.

It's important to have more than one healer with WAR tank - just like it is with PLD, but there the PLD *is* the second healer. RDM, BRD or if necessary, BLM throwing in a few cures will help keep the WHM's hate down and let him focus more on haste and regen. In the meantime the WAR's higher damage (both normal and SC) helps keep the fights short and reduces damage taken that way. It's definitely a different style of tanking than PLD and other party members may need to play differently too, but I wouldn't say it's less effective overall.

[Voila!]

The fact remains: a resting white mage is an unready white mage for when anything big happens. Not to mention a lazy white mage is a useless white mage.

Big scissors may not seem like much, but if a taru's tanking it can possiblely one shot it if the white mage is being lazy.

You can't justify a white mage resting during a fight unless there's a back up healer. You're just setting yourself up for failure.

[Ariagiovanni]

You don't continually rest during the fight, once you stand you usually stand the entire fight. But a PLD who can handle himself well in the beginning allows the WHM to recover more MP. Stupid Thief.

[Ozymandis]

Originally posted by Karinya
Self-healing is one of the main benefits of a PLD tank over WAR or NIN (both for the HP it restores, and for the hate it gains) and it would be silly not to take advantage of it.

This is wrong. The main benefit that PLD has over NIN is better hate control, and additionally over WAR, less damage taken.

The hitpoints that a PLD's healing restores will not increase exp gain in a balanced party.

If it doesn't increase experience gained, you can't really say that it's a benefit.

It's important to have more than one healer with WAR tank - just like it is with PLD, but there the PLD *is* the second healer. RDM, BRD or if necessary, BLM throwing in a few cures will help keep the WHM's hate down and let him focus more on haste and regen.

No tank should lose hate under normal circumstances to the healer.

Originally posted by Karinya
But a skilled player with good equipment can pull it off. The idea that 2-3 points of VIT makes a big difference to someone wearing 15+ points of VIT gear plus food is just silly.

We're talking 13-15 points VIT difference between Galka PLD and Taru PLD.

Hell, as a Galka WAR/NIN or even NIN/WAR I have more VIT than a Taru PLD. That's "Game Over".


Why can't people just accept that Tarus are the worst at ANY of the tank jobs, and move on? I mean, they're the best mages aside from bard, where it doesn't really matter as much. No one is saying that Tarus suck... just that any other race can out-tank them.

[Moo]

Originally posted by Voila!
Big scissors may not seem like much, but if a taru's tanking it can possiblely one shot it if the white mage is being lazy.

God you're retarded. Big scissors couldn't one shot a taru SMN. Go back to Crawler's Nest.



Taru are the worst HNM tanks hands down. However, a skilled Taru PLD is better than any other PLD in any exp party (yes, even scorpions and spiders etc. Only noobs get 1 shotted by those). It's that simple.

WAR and NIN, are a different story. They are definately the worst for those jobs, but they are still workable; more workable than galka or elvaan mages in my opinion.

[Ozymandis]

Big scissors isn't a bad TP attack. It's about as strong as a normal crit.

You'd bring a Taru PLD to tank scorps and spiders? Please forgive me, but that's very stupid. It IS possible for a Taru PLD to get killed easily by those mobs. Death Scissors or Sickle Slash usually won't hit for an entire health pool. But how often is a tank at full HP? I know I died (as NIN and as WAR) to Sickle Slash quite a few times, even with my Galka HP pool, because it was preceded or followed by an attack before I could be healed.

[hoboman]

lets just say this..
any race can tank, though some may be better than others, they are all good IF you do your job right
currently lv 56WAR/MNK
i tank perfectly fine
i get put down a lot becuase of these cocky elvaan/hume PLD's
well they can go fuck themselves
now i dont have the best gear for my level mainly cause im not a psychotic freak who plays 24/7
but i use food (fish meat etc etc....) and i can tank fine
so to end my statment
whoever thinks tarus can't tank can go die in a ditch somewhere in the middle of nowhere

[Aeolus]

I was in a PT with a taru tank once with my drk, he was absolutely amazing. It was my PT so i asked him to join but only cause there were no other paladins i have to admit. I thought we were gonna die quite quick as we were fighting beetles in crawlers nest that gave 200exp a kill. He had so much mp the mages didnt spend much mp healing him and also he had like 100%hate from his constant cure casting. He didnt do much damage admitedly but thats not a problem as me (Drk) and the thf and 2 blms were raping the hell outa the beetle anyway. His life didnt pass into the yellow once and he still managed to tank 2 beetles when one poped near the end of a fight. Taru tanks dont suck, I dont think a galka tank would have been good in that PT as he wouldnt have enough MP and therefore the blm's and the whm would need to heal him. Ive seen Galkas get hit for 80damage from mobs that hit tarus for 100damage, 10 extra damage is not something you need to complain about.

[Ozymandis]

That's 20 extra damage, not 10. And if a tank gets hit for 10 more damage per hit, over time that's a huge difference in damage taken.

Not to mention the extra damage that an Elvaan or Galka will do with their sword. 1h weapons are boosted by higher strength.

[Aeolus]

oh yeah opps 20^^ but still it doesnt matter causse the taru is healing that extra damage thats built up over time in one cure 2 or 3 as their healing is more potent. And if your party is actually good the tank could be doing 0 damage and youd still be getting amazing xpin. Tanks just there to stop the rest of the PT getting raped, and if they do some damage, hey, its a bonus but I dont remember elvaan pld's or even my own hume pld doing significant damage anyway.

[Voila!]

Originally posted by Moo
God you're retarded. Big scissors couldn't one shot a taru SMN. Go back to Crawler's Nest.



Taru are the worst HNM tanks hands down. However, a skilled Taru PLD is better than any other PLD in any exp party (yes, even scorpions and spiders etc. Only noobs get 1 shotted by those). It's that simple.

WAR and NIN, are a different story. They are definately the worst for those jobs, but they are still workable; more workable than galka or elvaan mages in my opinion.

Tarus can be one shotted by anything. I've sneezed and accidentally one shotted a taru in somebody else's party. Obviously you wouldn't know this because you only see what you want to see.

It's a fact tarus are one shotted very easily. If you havn't seen a taru be one shotted by big scissors then you havn't partied with one in the dunes.

[Bluejoker1118]

Originally posted by Voila!
Tarus can be one shotted by anything. I've sneezed and accidentally one shotted a taru in somebody else's party. Obviously you wouldn't know this because you only see what you want to see.

It's a fact tarus are one shotted very easily. If you havn't seen a taru be one shotted by big scissors then you havn't partied with one in the dunes.

Jeez your still on this? lol. This thread is ignorance at its best. I wish i never started it. Tarus can be one shotted. Elvaans can be one shotted. stuff it. Race matters litle to nothing. I dont know what kinda crappy Taru WARs you've pt'd with but find an ungimp one.they wont be one shotted

[Moo]

Originally posted by Voila!
If you havn't seen a taru be one shotted by big scissors then you havn't partied with one in the dunes.

I rest my case.

[Ariagiovanni]

Nice way to sum it up by comparing it to the dunes.