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  • Help picking a Subjob.

    First off, this forum is great. I have been reading for the past few days and find everything interesting.

    I watched my friends play this game since it came out until about 2 weeks ago, I was up late and decided I would go buy it and try it out.

    I love this game, I haven't played any other game or system since I have gotten it.

    I am lv 17 War right now and very confused about what path to take.

    At first I didn't think about taking War all the way to the top, but after reading on here I have realized that isn't a bad idea.

    At first my plan was to take War to 37 and then take Sam all the way to the top. I have been feeling iffy about that decision as I have played more.

    Looking on here I thought of going Thf to 15 and then getting Nin and taking it to 37 and War to 75.

    Some of my friends said that no one takes a war to the top, but I have seen a lot of ppl on here with war as their main and highest lv job. So, obviously it is done.

  • #2
    @ http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...4&pagenumber=3

    ZQM
    Whenever you use axes past 20, use /NIN.

    Like Nameless said, having a weapon in your offhand means you get an extra hit on your WS. So even though Rampage is normally 5 hits, being /NIN makes it 6 hits.

    And you'll probably be using Axes quite often. Axes can start fusion, stronger WS to end fusion (only Great Axe breaks end fusion, and you don't want those in SC), and stronger WSs to end Distortion. Only time you'll use Great Axe is if 1) You're not in SC and you use breaks 2) You're doing Framentation. Fragmentation is quite rare early on because of all the weak WS early on. However, at 60, a lot of powerful WSs can chain Fragmenation so you'll be doing it pretty often (Sidewinder, Guillotine, Raging Rush, ect).

    So from 1-20 IMO:
    Axe=MNK
    Great Axe=MNK
    20-30:
    Axe=NIN
    Great Axe=MNK
    30-60:
    Axe=NIN
    Great Axe=THF
    60-75:
    Axe=NIN
    Great Axe=THF orSAM (however, there's a thread floating around about how often you'll be using Great Axe post 66, so don't worry about it too much)
    Anyway, your friends who say people don't take WAR all the way probably won't go 'to the top' i invite WARs with Axes over DRKs >>
    There is no knowledge without experience.
    San dOria Rank4 \\ 30 WAR | 19 MNK | 14 RDM | 8 WHM | 13 BLM | 13 THF | 5 DRK | 10 RNG // Goldsmithing 10
    Windurst Rank4 // 46 WHM | 26 BLM | 20 RDM | 18 WAR \\ Alchemy 11 | Fishing 8

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    • #3
      Thanks

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      • #4
        actually war is a great job and a great DD when nin is subbed, my advice is take it to 30 subbing mnk, lvl up nin to 37 (subbing war), then take war to the top with nin subbed, I'll warn you though it may be expensive, especially if you're asked to tank as war/nin, then you will need to use utsusemi a lot, and btw if you sub nin I recommend using 2 axes, rather than swords, and when you are war/mnk I recommend using great axe
        [Blm 75] [Mnk 72] [Drg 64] [Brd 41] [War 37] [Whm 37] [Rdm 37] [Sam 28] [Smn 26] [Thf 25] [Blu 12] [Nin 10] [Pld 9] [Bst 8] [Rng 8] [Pup 3] [Cor 1] [Drk 1] Rank 10 San D'oria

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        • #5
          I got quoted.

          /em feels special.
          JohNNY

          Comment


          • #6
            I wouldn't recomend using NIN all the way to 75. I would recomend, however,
            MNK: 1-30
            MNK, THF, NIN: 30-55
            NIN, THF: 55-60 (although NIN is the more prefered of the 2)
            NIN, THF, SAM: 60-75 (NIN when using Axe, THF or SAM when using Great Axe)

            Multiple subs = win.

            Comment


            • #7
              um...

              Why do ppl ignore the MNk sub so early in game?

              Ever tried blink tanking mandy´s? my god it sucks.

              Utsusemi: Ichi ain´t that much of a god send. NIN main can´t really blink tank without help till 37, being WAR/NIN youre shadows fade off so fast you´ll be burning utsusemi like there is no tomorrow. Not to mention you loose hate gaining abilities with NIN sub. Boost spamming may sound to you very old school but it sure helps a lot with hate control if you don´t have a THF (or youre THF is semi retarded or even worse...you don´t have a trick partner). Also counter negates 1 attack, now i´m not gonna say it equals Utsusemi but it does trigger often when tanking (can you those counter+1 earrings if you want ). Also youre HP goes up a lot meaning youre WHM can be lazier without too much of a worry. At around 50 you get Focus. Alternating Focus and Aggressor gives you a very nice edge among other melee players acc. (And anyone you ask will tell you that as a melee char ACC>anything else)

              IMHO /MNk is the best thing you can sub when you are not in a static party. For a static party...if youre a DD then sub THF(although if you have a THF in youre party it maybe a bit of a hassle...2 THF is kinda of messy if you don´t coordinate well), if youre the tank than choose betwen MNK or NIN (IMO /MNK till utsusemi NI but well thats my opinion). But outside a static /MNK will give you an almost equall share of trades for each role...when tanking you get boost to help maintaing hate, hp boost and counter (and if you want to count it you also get dodge and a bit more of VIT ) ....when DD you get focus to get that extra ACC you oh so need and boost to buff up every WS you do :D

              THF offers nothing for tanking...NIN does not offer that much to DD (cuase 1 you can´t use doable viking axes forever and 2...you may want to cap youre Gaxe cause its really kewl :D)

              So in the end...for a person like me that can´t really static with anyone cuase of schedules and ends up with a diff role everytime i suggest /MNK (till 74...which may change with the new patch). It´s pretty nice when you get iniveted to tank...then somone leaves and you get a PLD and change to DD no probrem :D just don´t forget meat kabobs and crab.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: um...

                Sorry if it seems I'm picking this post apart, but I like to address issues I disagree with hands-on.

                Originally posted by Kibagami
                Utsusemi: Ichi ain´t that much of a god send.
                Early game? Maybe not. However, I've had to tank my last few party sesssions and it is impossible to tank at my level (70) without Utsusemi. Mobs hit me for 100-200 damage, and crits are huge.

                being WAR/NIN youre shadows fade off so fast you´ll be burning utsusemi like there is no tomorrow.
                Without a bards elegy, yes. I got raped when Elegy got resisted. However, if you party with a bard, you can keep shadows up almost the whole fight (monster attack speed is slowed to 4-5 seconds (depends on monster), making it very easy to re-cast Utsusemi).

                Not to mention you loose hate gaining abilities with NIN sub. Boost spamming may sound to you very old school but it sure helps a lot with hate control if you don´t have a THF (or youre THF is semi retarded or even worse...you don´t have a trick partner).
                /NIN > /MNK for hate keeping.

                Why?

                By being a WAR/NIN, I tank with Berserk on. Yes, that's right. I use a +ATK -DEF move when tanking. I also use Meat Mithkabobs, and use full on attacking gear instead of tanking gear.

                And you know what? I have to HOLD BACK so that the mob will turn during the skillchain. If I don't, and the skillchain doesn't start right away, then the mob won't turn even after a 700+ WS and then the THFs renkei gets messed up.*

                *The THF normally doesn't do fuidama onto me, and saves it for skillchain. I get SATA maybe three times every 30 minutes.

                (And anyone you ask will tell you that as a melee char ACC>anything else)
                STR > ACC

                With Aggressor, there's no need to load up on ACC as a WAR. Ofcoarse that odesn't mean neglect it, but you only need 100% TP for a skillchain, and a skilllchain is where the damage comes from. Damage over time means shit when you're fighting for chain 6's. As long as you can get 100% to skillchain, nothing else matters except your WS damage.

                But outside a static /MNK will give you an almost equall share of trades for each role...when tanking you get boost to help maintaing hate, hp boost and counter (and if you want to count it you also get dodge and a bit more of VIT ) ....when DD you get focus to get that extra ACC you oh so need and boost to buff up every WS you do :D
                Outside static, you should have every subjob leveled to fit the party set up. Every sub has their spot, they all become superior in different situations and levels.

                NIN does not offer that much to DD (cuase 1 you can´t use doable viking axes forever and 2...you may want to cap youre Gaxe cause its really kewl :D)
                O_o

                When you're using axes, NIN is the best option for DD. You get an extra hit in your WS, which (in almost every case) will out damage a sneak attack + axe WS (since axe crits aren't very powerful). And like I said, the power of your WS is the only thing that matters.
                JohNNY

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                • #9
                  I'd also like to point out something that hasn't been mentioned:

                  /RNG sub provides a +10 Accuracy/Ranged Accuracy Bonus at level 20 (10 w/ RNG main.) /NIN and /THF would probably be better for damage dealing post-30, and /MNK would probably also be better for tanking, but /RNG might actually be good from 20-30 with a Great Axe, when you still can't get Sneak Attack from subbing THF. The extra accuracy might even allow you to score more hits than you would with Counter.

                  I'd also like to point out that ZQM has made some very good points. I didn't know you could score an extra hit with your sub weapon when you use Weapon Skills (obviously subbing /NIN) ^^ And Double Attack should also apply to that extra hit occasionally...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Double Attack is what makes Rampage so great with /NIN. When you hit for 4 or 5 hits, you can do good damage. When you hit for 8 or even more, the RNG is saying "Wow, he just matched/exceeded Sidewinder"


                    I think THF sub is a bit underrated on this board. From 30 to 54, SA+Sturmwind will be putting up numbers close to Viper Bite... and Fragmentation is really almost as good as Distortion, if not better. I don't know why people don't realize that.

                    Got Raging Rush last night. Easily broke 1k on a Tough coffer mob. In an exp party in Onzozo, damage was 300-600, but they were high ITs to me and I never landed more than 2 hits even with all the ACC up gear I had on (+42 ACC, I'll add another 3 to that tonight to see if it helps). Should be much stronger versus Raptors and, at 62, versus Toramas.
                    Nusayb, Galka, Fairy Server- 63WAR,
                    70NIN, 37THF, 66MNK, 25DRG, 18RNG, 16SAM, etc. WAR AF Complete. NIN AF Complete. MNK AF Complete.

                    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?48681

                    ????, Hume Female, Fairy Server- 29BLM, 21WHM, 37THF, 32WAR, 31DRK, etc.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Armando
                      /RNG sub provides a +10 Accuracy/Ranged Accuracy Bonus at level 20 (10 w/ RNG main.) /NIN and /THF would probably be better for damage dealing post-30, and /MNK would probably also be better for tanking, but /RNG might actually be good from 20-30 with a Great Axe, when you still can't get Sneak Attack from subbing THF. The extra accuracy might even allow you to score more hits than you would with Counter.
                      That's a very good idea. Though I don't think it'd be good when tanking (Boost for MNK gives so much hate at that level), it'd probably be the best sub for damage dealing from 20-30 with the accuracy trait, expecially with a Great Axe. Would probably get hard convincing people of it though, since a lot of people have a 1-tracked mind on subjobs. So party invites would probably be bad.

                      Originally posted by Ozymandis
                      I think THF sub is a bit underrated on this board. From 30 to 54, SA+Sturmwind will be putting up numbers close to Viper Bite... and Fragmentation is really almost as good as Distortion, if not better. I don't know why people don't realize that.
                      Becaurse pre-55/60, all of the WSs except Sturmwind SUCK to make Fragmentation. Sturmwind IS one of the most powerful WSs, but it's hard convincing your SAM to do Tachi: Hobaku or DRK to do one of their shitty WSs.
                      JohNNY

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                      • #12
                        Ghetto paladin gets only slightly less invites than "real" subjob setups it seems, so going /rng probably wouldn't be too difficult. In fact, considering what you normally fight until 37, I would say you can "probably" take it all the way there without any problems.

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                        • #13
                          That's a very good idea. Though I don't think it'd be good when tanking (Boost for MNK gives so much hate at that level), it'd probably be the best sub for damage dealing from 20-30 with the accuracy trait, expecially with a Great Axe. Would probably get hard convincing people of it though, since a lot of people have a 1-tracked mind on subjobs. So party invites would probably be bad.
                          Ah, so you think so too. It's glad to see that someone else also thinks it has potential. It's a shame RNG wasn't accessible to me at those levels...as for Boost, I was aware it was helping me generate a lot of hate (Between Voke, Boost, Counter, and Double Attack with my Great Axe I had so much hate a RNG and MNK couldn't voke the mobs off me in Batallia when I was dying) but do you think it can really get more hate than all those extra hits and built-up damage? I'm levelling my RNG right now just so I can try it, for tanking at least. I think for damage dealing /THF would still be best because of the big skillchain damage, and /NIN because of dual axes, right? In any case, we'll see...the combo does have a few more perks, Precaution and Widescan are always handy ^^

                          I could still use it if and when I level DRG and/or SAM I suppose. I'm just dying to have that Accuracy Bonus! There's also the matter of having bow WS...I know it's probably gonna backfire but I do wanna give it a shot. My archery is only like 10 levels away from capping, I have a Great Bow +1, Horn Arrows, Beetle Rings +1, maybe with Sharpshot too I could do some Bow WS...that's probably more wishful thinking than anything else but it never hurts to try it.

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                          • #14
                            Well i don´t want to take apart youre post either but let´s just go to the concerning parts:

                            **Without a bards elegy, yes. I got raped when Elegy got resisted. However, if you party with a bard, you can keep shadows up almost the whole fight (monster attack speed is slowed to 4-5 seconds (depends on monster), making it very easy to re-cast Utsusemi).**

                            Now ZQM i know youre lvl 70+, and most probably at youre lvl you most probably have a static and have a BRD. Now some of us don´t have that luxury, ive partied with very very few BRD and half of them sucked (yes even brd´s can suck >_>). At lvl 74 i will defenetly change to /NIN cause of both Utsusemi.

                            **/NIN > /MNK for hate keeping.

                            Why?

                            By being a WAR/NIN, I tank with Berserk on. Yes, that's right. I use a +ATK -DEF move when tanking. I also use Meat Mithkabobs, and use full on attacking gear instead of tanking gear.

                            And you know what? I have to HOLD BACK so that the mob will turn during the skillchain. If I don't, and the skillchain doesn't start right away, then the mob won't turn even after a 700+ WS and then the THFs renkei gets messed up.* **

                            Yea well i have to HOLD BACK too ... i usually use a Gaxe, use meat kabobs and attacking gear too. Then i trhow in Defender so that i don´t get hit for much... you know one thing i hate about forums is how you can´t always explain youre playing style and no matter how much you type you´re never done typing ><.
                            You simply know youre good cause ppl remember you and cause ppl tell you during parties. I think i probably am the last WAR/MNk on kujata but after playing WAR/NIN, WAR/THF and WAR/MNK I feel WAR/MNk suits my style the best. ATM i can think of a lot of situations where WAR/NIN can be a total disaster...and others where its godly (vs. mandys it sucks...vs slow mobs like beetle it rocks...then you have to see youre party config too..etc etc).
                            (About dual wielding axes...1) for some reason JP parties always ask of me to bring a sword specialy in thier WAR-MNK-MNk parties, 2)i´m pretty sure you know rampage has a limited life span that ceases once lvl 3 renkei is available and thats when DRK/THF get really popular and you´ll probably want to make a chain like Raging Crush>Spining slash etc etc as i said situations vary a lot when you don´t have a static...i myself have past by 4 statics that could not last more than one week and 3) i just like GAXE more than axe and i´m pretty sure SE will continue to lean WAR torwards GAXE more and more with each update)

                            ** STR > ACC

                            With Aggressor, there's no need to load up on ACC as a WAR. Ofcoarse that odesn't mean neglect it, but you only need 100% TP for a skillchain, and a skilllchain is where the damage comes from. Damage over time means shit when you're fighting for chain 6's. As long as you can get 100% to skillchain, nothing else matters except your WS damage. **

                            Ok what i meant with the post that made you post this is that with Focus and Agressor you can have an ACC boost all the time by alternating both JA sorry

                            **Outside static, you should have every subjob leveled to fit the party set up. Every sub has their spot, they all become superior in different situations and levels.**

                            Yea the bottom line is EVERY sub has its moment and its adavantages. I personally dislike the NIN sub and the idea of my post was not to say MNK>NIN in EVERYTHING just that MNK is an option as a subjob too (b4 my post no one mentioned MNK as a viable sub job >_<

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kibagami
                              (About dual wielding axes...1) for some reason JP parties always ask of me to bring a sword specialy in thier WAR-MNK-MNk parties, 2)i´m pretty sure you know rampage has a limited life span that ceases once lvl 3 renkei is available and thats when DRK/THF get really popular and you´ll probably want to make a chain like Raging Crush>Spining slash etc etc
                              I'm confused by this statement. Are you using this as an argument to support /MNK > /NIN?

                              I'm not leaning toward either sub either way, but let me just post some facts and experiences.

                              First of all, Raging Rush > Spinning Slash is not a level 3 skillchain. From 66-71 the only thing you can SC with Spinning Slash for Light SC is Mistral Axe, which is a 1hAxe WS (not the GA's 225 WS Full Break). In this example, 1h Axe is still better than GA in terms of skillchains and WS.

                              Second, are you saying you are going to be tanking with WAR/MNK from 66+? Wow.. that takes some balls. You're no longer fighting wussy beetles and crabs, and instead moving on to Processionaires (still somewhat wussy but they hit harder than crabs), Darters, Bark Spiders, Tormentors, Weapons, Bones, etc. Unless you're stacking Defender and Fish food, I don't see how you're going to survive chain 5's without wasting mages' MP... but if you go defensive that means you won't be hitting very hard or often, thus have trouble holding hate. So are you then saying you'd prefer WAR/MNK at these levels as DD?

                              In that case, what could a /MNK subjob contribute as a DD? Full Break is a decent WS but what the heck would you skillchain it with for Darkness? Lv 66-71 the only jobs that can sc with Full Break are NIN and PLD... no DD. So that's why most (if not all) WAR switch to 1haxe 66+ so they can skillchain with Spinning Slash, Shark Bite or Dragon Kick. So if you're using 1h Axe, why would you sub /MNK over /NIN or even /THF?

                              I understand the point you're trying to make: that /MNK is still viable in several instances. I just don't know why you threw in that example when it seems to *contradict* your point.
                              I believe in karma. Anyone I treat badly probably deserved it.

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