Dex/Accuracy conversion. Almost there...

[Guile]

Nice Job Bigokk, I have been wondering about the relationship between dex and accuracy ever since I read that SE interview where they never stated that 2 dex = 1 acc.

I guess a balance of both dex and +acc would be more benificial then focusing on just dex or acc.

[Armando]

Good thing Dark-Evil posted the link to the interview, saved me some trouble ^^ Wanted to find it so I could back up my arguments.

yes i agree Armando, I just tested out the STR/Attack relationship on my character and 2 STR made my attack go up by 1. What i cant figure out is why SE said its the opposite, STR and Attack cannot be a linear relationship. Actually now that i think of it the interview said STR increases your DMG potential and Attack brings you closer to that potential(less random dammage values from attacks). Hmmmm, thought provoking...

Attack=STR x 2

However, Strength and Attack each have different functions.

Attack:

Attack increases your standard damage variance and increases the average damage given.

STR:

STR increases your damage curve itself and increases the maximum amount of damage given.

Square-Enix DID state that 2 STR = 1 Attack. I think what got you confused was the roles of each. The effect Attack has on your damage output is based on a curve. At first the effect is huge, but at high levels it starts giving diminishing returns, and the small but fixed increase in damage output that STR gives you becomes greater than your Attack stat's increase to your damage output. Yes, the relationship between STR and Attack is linear; the relationship between Attack and the actual damage you do isn't.

If anyone didn't quite understand what SE said in the interview, basically Attack increases your average damage and Strength raises your maximum damage.

[Russta]

Something we talk about in our LS lately is the relationship between STR with Attack and DEX with Accuracy. We're all pretty much in agreement now that at high end you need to raise your STR to "uncap" your Attack and the same for DEX/Accuracy.

[Ridill]

Based upon the knowledge of other statistics, we can assume that AGI/Evasion/Evasion skill and DEX/Accuracy/Weapon skill are inversely proportionate. With that said, we can also assume that when the mob is "conned" to have no evasive advantage or disadvantage that the value of AGI/Evasion/Evasion skill is equivalent to the DEX/Accuracy/Weapon skill

So when we know when the values are equivalent, we can assume that;

DEX/Accuracy/Weapon skill - AGI/Evasion/Evasion skill = 0

To successfully determine the proportions, however recquires given knowledge of the stats of the monsters or extensive testing and throwing about numbers that "seem" right.

For further testing, I suggest that someone alters their DEX Gear and Accuracy Gear and compare it a monster with an equivalent evasion. If additional dexterity and fewer +accuracy produces the same outcome, we can find a range of dexterity values and accuracy values that are proportionate to one another.

Hope this might help a little. Because right now, I'm so lost I can't even continue forward....

[Bigokk McGock]

To successfully determine the proportions, however recquires given knowledge of the stats of the monsters or extensive testing and throwing about numbers that "seem" right.

There's a link in my original post to my numbers and the ones labeled "xxx works" are the ones that seem right, but have a wide variety of results.

For further testing, I suggest that someone alters their DEX Gear and Accuracy Gear and compare it a monster with an equivalent evasion. If additional dexterity and fewer +accuracy produces the same outcome, we can find a range of dexterity values and accuracy values that are proportionate to one another.

Exactly what I was thinking of doing. Hopefully I can do this testing before CoP is released, or it will be a while before I get back to Onzozo. I've logged in twice in the past month, been spending a lot of time outside with my son before it starts getting cold.

[Alontier]

The skill and accuracy relation was changed 2003.12.16

Skill≤200
Acc = Skill + (Dex/2) + AccBoost
Skill>200
Acc = 200 + (Skill-200)/5 + (Dex/2) + AccBoost
(AccBoost being Acc from equipment and spells etc.)

(Targets Evasion - 20) >(&ge Acc , High Evation
(Targets Evasion + 20) &le;(<) Acc , Low Evation

You will find that the Targets Evasion diff will only get higher after level 60...

ref; http://ff11renkei.hp.infoseek.co.jp/theory/skill.html

[Lmnop]

I'll ask the question before someone else does......

Can we get a link?

Also, I did a little testing with some lower leveled jobs. I had noticed a coincidence once upon a time for str-att and assumed too much. I did find, however, that every character has a base attack of exactly 8 points. (this is with 0 str and 0 skill). But I digress. The focus is accuracy.

for what you said, Ridill, I don't think it only checks 'nothing special' if the values are 0. it'd have to be a range like what alontier posted. That formula still uses dex/2 = acc and that just seems too convenient......

[Bigokk McGock]

The skill and accuracy relation was changed 2003.12.16

Skill≤200
Acc = Skill + (Dex/2) + AccBoost
Skill>200
Acc = 200 + (Skill-200)/5 + (Dex/2) + AccBoost
(AccBoost being Acc from equipment and spells etc.)

(Targets Evasion - 20) >(≥) Acc , High Evation
(Targets Evasion + 20) ≤(<) Acc , Low Evation

You will find that the Targets Evasion diff will only get higher after level 60...

ref; http://ff11renkei.hp.infoseek.co.jp/theory/skill.html

So my formula is correct, wonderful.

The only part that is still unknown is the part I highlighted, "Dex/2". There is no way to prove this without knowing the exact number of AGI the mob has.

The equation still works no matter what "Dex/X" is because the relation is the same vs. "Agi/X".

[Ridill]

That's true Lmnop. The way I had described would only give the value of dexterity compared to accuracy for that specific level, and it's very unlikely that a linear equation which would be created from that instance would be the same through other levels.

[Valdrien]

Originally posted by Russta
Something we talk about in our LS lately is the relationship between STR with Attack and DEX with Accuracy. We're all pretty much in agreement now that at high end you need to raise your STR to "uncap" your Attack and the same for DEX/Accuracy.

This makes the most sense of all. It's well-established that Atk and Def are curve-based and give diminishing returns past a certain point, at which you want to start increasing STR and VIT (repsectively) to shift the entire curve upward.

Perhaps DEX/Accuracy is the same way and melees should be wearing Fluorite Rings instead of Snipers past 60? Or Spike Necklace instead of Peacock Charm? SHOKKU!

Ninjas might also want to take notice of this... perhaps once you get to a certain point of added Evasion, adding AGI could become more beneficial that yet more +Evasion.

Of course, this is pretty much opposite of what Bigokk is finding. But Bigokk, have you tried seeing how much +DEX gear it takes to change a mob's evasion? And at various levels and amounts of added accuracy?

[bleegh]

hmmm so what's the general consensus?

The formula (if it's correct) indicates that since dex is used in the same formula, but to a lesser degree, dex is not nearly as important as acc.

On the other hand, people think that the acc/dex relationship follows the attk/str example, and view it as a curve, with dex needed to uncap attk.

I'm personally interested in this, as my monk is now 61, and with pallas bracelets, my dex goes down to -2 - which is not something I'm very comfortable with. On the other hand, I have spectacles, life belt, 2 snipers, and my AF body supplying massive acc. Should I be worried about replacing some of my acc items with dex items?

[Hisdon]

if it's skill level + DEX/2 +acc=accuracy, +acc gear will still be superior imo :|

[Dano]

i suggest testing out in ballista, where you know the stats of both sides, then see how well you hit, too bad you can't con yer opponents.