DD Gear Dilemma, need input please.

[Bigokk McGock]

I'm having a dilemma of which DD setup works the best.

Here's something interresting I tested this weekend:

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10 battles using Master Belt with Darksteel Axe+1, Viking Axe = 17831 damage. 76.8% Accuracy, no BRD.
vs
10 battles using Sarashi with Viking Axe and Bloodsword = 17757 damage. 77.04% Accuracy, no BRD.
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74 damage more with setup #1, BUT...in setup #2, I had no Haste buff ^^ (7.4 damage per battle difference) and look at the Accuracy...

What does that prove exactly?

I also have more logs over the weekend of 3 more PTs, 3 more DRKs outdamaged. /bow
(NOTE: others misses are turned off and I don't think you care about the avg %)

Group 1, 24 Battles - No BLM, no BRD, but had WHM Haste most of the time.

Bigokk (61 WAR/NIN)
Average Damage: 1801.10
Average Percent: 44.91
Average Accuracy: 77.19

Mission (61 DRK/WAR)
Average Damage: 1225.54

Agathan (60 DRK/WAR)
Average Damage: 734.41

Group 2, 35 Battles - No BRD, No Haste /cry

Bigokk (61 NIN/WAR)
Average Damage: 1440
Average Accuracy: 74.35

Mission (61 DRK/WAR)
Average Damage: 948.91
Phaedrus (61 BLM/WHM)
Average Damage : 801.34

Group 3, 40 Battles - No BRD, occasional SMN Hastaga

Bigokk (61 NIN/WAR)
Average Damage: 1554.72
Average Accuracy: 78.62

Snoopdogg (61 DRK/WAR)
Average Damage : 1128.95
Viperkc (62 BLM/WHM)
Average Damage: 547.90

[laicram]

Is the HP drain from Bloodsword significant? And which do you think looks cooler - 2 black axes or axe + sword? =D

[imstimpy]

I've heard from multiple people that the more testing is done, the more inconclusive it gets in this game. Crafting is a perfect example of this.

Perhaps one should go for the obvious upgrades (Haubergeon being better than WAR AF, for instance) then go for the original upgrades for other slots (Sarashi vs Master's Belt or Bloodsword versus Viking Axe).

As a little side note: WAR/NIN + Haste = YAY!

As another little side note, bloody bolts drain such a rediculous amount of HP that a THF can swap them in every now and then and never have to rest. Their text: "Additional effect: Drain HP"

[lun4tic]

You don't seem to be in a crunch for money, so why not use 'em all? I don't think switching out off-hand weapons affects TP, so if you're hurting then switch to Bloody Sword, if not, then Viking/Darksteel +1.

If I had your kinda money I'd be set. ^^

[Xien]

You forgot to mention what you were fighting. There might not be a bard in the PT, but if you're fighting non IT++ (raptors, for example), accuracy doesn't really matter all that much.

Xien

PS You also forgot to say what the SC in the PT was. If the SC was Vorpal >> Rampage, it's pretty obvious why you outdamaged the Darks.

[Synbios]

Originally posted by lun4tic
You don't seem to be in a crunch for money, so why not use 'em all? I don't think switching out off-hand weapons affects TP, so if you're hurting then switch to Bloody Sword, if not, then Viking/Darksteel +1.

If I had your kinda money I'd be set. ^^

Main/Off/Ranged, either 1 when switched will result in 0 tp.

[Bigokk McGock]

Sorry, I should have been more detailed in my post, but was in a hurry as I was leaving work.

We fought in Valley of Sorrows vs Raptors and Perytons. After thinking about the above comparison, I didn't think it was fair to base a decision on only 10 battles so I went there last night to try and clear up any confusion I was having.

Using the Sarashi with Viking Axe + Bloodsword, I parsed the 6k XP I needed until I hit 62.

With the occasional Hastaga (about 1/5 battles) and a damage heavy SC (Sidewinder > Rampage > Blizzaga II/Freeze) I knew my damage per fight would be down a little since we would be killing them faster.

What I didn't know is that I would just miss outdamaging the RNG by 10 damage per fight...I should have used Darksteel Axe+1 and Viking Axe ><;

Bigokk (61 WAR/NIN)
Total Fights: 38
Average Damage: 1250.31
Average Percent: 34.07
Average Accuracy: 73.34

Galdarius (61 RNG/NIN)
Total Fights: 38
Average Damage: 1266.16
Average Percent: 34.61

Noxin (61 BLM/WHM)
Total Fights: 38
Average Damage: 1014.08
Average Percent: 26.55

My accuracy is down about 4-5% and so is my overall damage per battle. The lower damage per battle could be accredited to higher damage output by my other party members (RNG and BLM)than in previous ones (DRK and BLM).

I have ultimately come to the conclusion that using Bloodsword in offhand does lower my damage output, even with the 5 STR and 5 DEX and HP Drain effect. (The HP drain goes off almost never on IT mobs, and rarely on VT mobs).

When considering the damage/delay of both (Bloodsword 44/290, Darksteel Axe+1 43/281), the Darksteel Axe+1 has a little better ratio and the added Accuracy from skill points should make up for the 5 DEX loss.

[Ozymandis]

You really think Darksteel Axe+1 is superior to Bloodsword? :sweat:

Don't say that! I bought DS+1 over the weekend when I hit 56 to be a placeholder while I skill up 1h sword for the Bloodsword. I've been working my butt off getting 1h sword skilled up.

Ah well, I guess I'll need Spirits Within eventually.


BTW, just wanted to say that your damage logs definitely match my experience. Over the weekend, was in PT- MNK/WAR RNG/WAR me (WAR/NIN) WHM RDM PLD. Fighting lizards and a few crabs in Kuftal that were low IT-VT, I was outdamaging the ranger most fights and the monk pretty much every fight. Skillchain was Sidewinder -> Rampage, fights were usually short. We might as well not have had a tank, the PLD was Galka and he was good but the only battles where he would have constant hate was the ones where he'd lead off with his massive 300 TP Spirits Within.

Once I hit 55 WAR/NIN really paid off. Now having upgraded one of my Vikings to the higher-damage Darksteel+1, I feel confident that really only a very well-equipped RNG will outdamage me consistently :D

[lun4tic]

If the Bloodsword rarely activates, I'd stick with the Viking and Darksteel. Axes are what warriors do the best with.

[Ozymandis]

Well, I'll save 500k then. Which is nice since I have 3 levels (!!) to afford a Haubergeon

Prices on it just keep rising and rising... :sweat:

[imstimpy]

**This post has been edited to correct the formulas**

Bigokk, your numbers look surprisingly close to my numbers.

Here is an approximated damage formula found here:
DMG = BaseDMG + WeaponDMG*CENTER
BaseDMG = STR-VIT
BaseDMG (max) = 24 + [3 * {WeaponDMG / 9}]
WeaponDMG = value on the weapon excluding H2H
CENTER = (ATK/DEF)^3

If we exclude BaseDMG and focus only on a rate of 1 (no penalty or bonus) and a rate of 2 (bonus):

Viking Axe
36 276
MIN = 36
MAX = 72

Darksteel Axe +1
43 281
MIN = 43
MAX = 86

Bloodsword
44 290
MIN = 44
MAX = 88

I'm going to account for the ATK loss with the sword and assume ATK = 400 with axe, ATK = 390 with sword (probably lower since the ATK loss of 8 is calculated before food, berserk, warcry, etc), and DEF = 300, 400, and 500:
DMG = WEAPONDMG * CENTER

Viking Axe
36 276
DEF 300 => DMG = 72
DEF 400 => DMG = 36
DEF 500 => DMG = 18

Darksteel Axe +1
43 281
DEF 300 => DMG = 86
DEF 400 => DMG = 43
DEF 500 => DMG = 22

Bloodsword
44 290
DEF 300 => DMG = 88
DEF 400 => DMG = 40
DEF 500 => DMG = 20

With the mobs DEF = 300, the center cap of 2 is hit, so both deal the same damage. At DEF = 400, only a 10 ATK loss has dropped 4 DMG off per hit for the sword. At DEF = 500 we are now on the other side of the cubic equation so the difference is back down to 2 DMG off per hit. To account for the +5 STR the Bloodsword has, we can shift all values up by 5 for both the Viking Axe AND the Bloodsword. However, we can also shift our curve down due to the loss of 5 DEX associated with a lower chance for critical as well as a loss of accuracy for BOTH weapons. Finally, we have a loss of 8 combat skills which translates into an unknown loss of ACC (1 ACC = 1 Combat Skill?) for only the Bloodsword.

End result? No idea because there are too many unknowns still...

[Bigokk McGock]

The only thing I can base my decision on is the raw data(although cannot be directly compaired because of different group setups).

Sarashi with Darksteel Axe+1 and Viking Axe:

Total Fights: 52
Average Damage: 1485
Average Percent: 44.22
Average Accuracy: 81.1

Sarashi with Viking Axe and Bloodsword:

Total Fights: 39
Average Damage: 1240.31
Average Percent: 33.77
Average Accuracy: 73.34

Both groups were similar, except the first group had a DRK who averaged 1101 damage per battle and the second group had a RNG in it that outdamaged me by 15.x damage per battle.

I guess what I'm going to do is use Darksteel Axe+1 and Viking Axe with Sarashi, putting Master Belt on after Aggressor falls on those mobs who con higher than "low evasion".

That appears to be the best way to maximize damage at this point with the gear I have.

[Nameless]

I've been wondering this with most parse'd logs, but how do you get a decimal in your numbers? All damages in the game are whole numbers, correct? Just wondering.


edit - nevermind, I'm an idiot. It's averages >.>

[Synbios]

You guys are scaring me with all the numbers.

[imstimpy]

I find the formulas fascinating and enjoy applying them to see how they correlate. It is way over the top, but interesting reading for myself (and hopefully others).

I partied last night in Labrynth of Onzozo at lv61. I used 2x Viking Axe, ACC +39, and my hit percent was ~60% (evasive bastards). I'll post the actual numbers later (they are at home), but in the end my numbers were higher than the DRK and the MNK, who were both lv62. That is not to bash the MNK or the DRK (he had a very unusual, mage-like play) but to demonstrate that I'm still at the top while using two lv48 weapons. I'll explain later.