How to play war/nin?

[Exeter]

Hmm... I was considering trying out War/nin, but I was wondering how most of you play war/nin. I'm sure a lot of you play it in a different ways, but I was just wondering how most of you guys tank. Do you spam Utsusemi? Cast it once in a while, or even use it? Do you always have defender on or use it in rare occasions. My big question is how do you even cast Utsusemi, don't most of you get hit while casting it and get interupted?

Sorry, I just wanted to know what I should be doing before I start playing it.

[Bigokk McGock]

I would write up a big WAR/NIN strat guide, but my fear is that this is going to be the next trendy job combo...

Giving out my strats would enable those bandwagon jumpers to be as good as me ^^

Nothing against you, of course.

I will answer your questions though :p

Utsusemi:
Cast one before the pull, wait until you lose the second shadow(on non-dual attack mobs), then cast it again.

On dual attack mobs, it's pretty much a waste to use it twice, just once before the pull is fine.

This is pretty much the only time you should worry about casting it...(until you get higher level and the mobs start casting nasty spells with really long cast times or when a mob does a TP special).

If you cast it and it gets to 80% or higher, it doesn't matter if you get hit, it will finish casting.

After you lose your second set of shadows, don't worry about recasting it, unless, as I mentioned above, the mob is casting a nasty spell with long enough cast time to refresh Utsusemi.

Sometimes I use Defender, sometimes I don't. It really depends on the monster's damage output and level of monster.
I always use fish kabobs when tanking.

Warcry is best used before a skillchain is started, and preferably if you're tanking, you should try to finish the chain so you get the hate from the skillchain damage as well.

The best part of the job combo for me is when I am not the tank and can go strictly damage mode, swap in all the expensive attack/accuracy gear for your tank gear and go to town.

I hope I helped you out.

[Karinya]

Do you use a shield when tanking, or stick with dual wield axes?

How often do monsters get through your Utsusemi and hit you while tanking? Do you get hit noticeably harder than PLD tanks you have partied with?

What are your gear/food priorities as a WAR/NIN tank? Evasion to keep shadows? Defense? Vitality? Accuracy and attack to keep hate?

As a damage dealer, do you find your damage compares well with WAR/MNK, WAR/SAM or WAR/THF using 2 handed weapons? Does it depend a lot on the type of monster (eg high VIT monsters reduce the damage from both axes more than they reduce damage from one two-handed weapon)?

In a few more WAR levels (18 now, making WAR/NIN kinda pointless) I can start finding out these answers for myself, I guess. But before I make the investment into serious NIN leveling, I'd like to know how it will eventually pay off.

[Exeter]

Thank you Bigokk. That was what I was looking for. Thanks

[METDeath]

okay, not using two weapons while dual wielding is just bad... that defeats one of the primary advantages of /nin sub, more damage, and yes, war/nin will out damage pld/war constanly just because of crazy axe damage.

as was said above, get in an utsu before pull, and start casting before you're about to lose your third shadow, something to help with negating damage, try to build your parry skill, there's 290384 threads on capping shield/parry/guard for tanks on these forums, find one and use it as best you can, when you start getting to EP mobs, request tanking duty.

however, if you're as odd as i am, you can just level pld as well and garuntee you get those spiffy shield/parry skill up chances a lot more than you would normally... plus leveling them in tandem lets you get more cp and spend a bit less on gear... but then... i'm the middle of leveling all my jobs out of scale/brass gear, so all my combat skills are capped, so it's quite amusing... at one point i actually had trouble keeping hate as pld due to blocks/parries/evades... had to heal pt members and eventually got hate that way... quite annoying really...

[ZQM]

I'm only 40atm, and I hardly tank, but...

About casting Utsusemi during battle, I do it. As long as the monster gets slowed and you know when to cast (right before the mob hits you), then it'll go through.

Originally posted by Karinya
Do you use a shield when tanking, or stick with dual wield axes?

Dual axes. But my shield skill is also low. If you somehow have capped shield, I would suggestion using that.

How often do monsters get through your Utsusemi and hit you while tanking? Do you get hit noticeably harder than PLD tanks you have partied with?

You're lucky if the mob does miss you. WARs have horrible evasion. And Pre-50 WARs have just as good of DEF as PLDs expecially since they have Defender.

What are your gear/food priorities as WAR/NIN tank? Evasion to keep shadows? Defense? Vitality? Accuracy and attack to keep hate?

Fish Mithkabobs/Boiled Crab when tanking.

Never get evasion, since Warriors have shitty evasion it won't help. From reading the PLD boards, defense > vitality before 60 and vitality > defense afterwards. As for ACC/ATK, it depends on the amount of defense. I would go with ACC/ATK if the def difference is lower then 3-5.

As a damage dealer, do you find your damage compares well with WAR/MNK, WAR/SAM or WAR/THF using 2 handed weapons? Does it depend a lot on the type of monster (eg high VIT monsters reduce the damage from both axes more than they reduce damage from one two-handed weapon)?

/MNK and /NIN are really going to do the same damage with a 2h weapon. As for /SAM, the advanterage there is spamming weaponskills so it's better. And /THF is just awesome with a great axe (I've done 350ish Sturmwinds with Sneak Attack and Double Attack kicks in :D). Not sure about the second question. :sweat: I know what you're asking, but not sure of the answer.

[Karinya]

Eh, I meant does WAR/NIN with two axes outdamage WAR/MNK etc. with a great axe. Thanks for the other answers though.

It sounds like WAR/NIN would be interesting, challenging and potentially pretty effective.

[Ozymandis]

Originally posted by Karinya
Eh, I meant does WAR/NIN with two axes outdamage WAR/MNK etc. with a great axe.

Depends on what the axes are and what the great axe is. In base DoT it's usually pretty even. But you have to figure that the dual axes will get two checks against the enemy's defense and vitality rather than just one. For that reason I always figured that Great Axe is a little more damaging as far as regular attacks.

Haven't noticed too much of a difference in reality (to 50).

[Suntan2]

Dual wielding axes gives a faster attack rate due to /nin duel wield ability.

Great axe has more advantage with defense. -10 damage due to defense off of a single 90 damage attack has less affect than off 2 45 ones.
Also it works better with sneak attack.

I.e Once for 80 , or twice for 35 << Slightly more than twice due
to duel wield so overall they
are pretty even.

[Funguwari]

The higher the mobs DEF, VIT and Lv... the more you'll see a Great axe win damage wise vrs. two Dual-Weilded axes.

[July]

Oh damn lol...I never thought of this. War/Nin will be expected to tank right. *sigh* I thought I was going to be a dmg dealing class selecting War/Nin...I've been lvling Nin for a while to use it as a sub for my War when I level it for my Pld sub...but now I don't want to.. I don't want to tank again *sigh*

[pierrot]

Originally posted by July
War/Nin will be expected to tank right.

You'll be more of a "perfect" sub-tank, so expect to PT with THFs a lot.

Pre 37 you may be able to tank just about equal to a NIN, but after that you're more like "No NIN & PLD available for an hour, let's invite the war/nin"

[Bigokk McGock]

Eh, I meant does WAR/NIN with two axes outdamage WAR/MNK etc. with a great axe. Thanks for the other answers though.

After level 50? Without a doubt you will do at least 15% more damage than WAR/*

Most times (55-59 with Rampage) you will outdamage every melee except RNG.

It sounds like WAR/NIN would be interesting, challenging and potentially pretty effective.

It's better than that...

[ZQM]

I was doing around 50-60 per swing in Gustav Tunnel, and 40-50 to things in Crawlers Nest with two Combat Caster Axes. I think Great Axe does 70-80 damage at this level (Based off of a DRK)? I'm also able to get in 2-3 more swings then somebody with a Great Axe.

I've also been able to pull of a 408 Raging Axe on a VT Gob (Very rare to have Double Attack go off on both hits but still impressive). Highest Sturmwind I've been able to do was 308 (with Sneak Attack).

I'm not sure about later, but at this current level axes also give a lot better stat boosts. From 40-47 I get to have ATK+10. At 48+ there's Viking axes, ACC+20 (which then allows you to get a Swordbelt and STR rings instead of a Lifebelt and Snipers).

I don't even plan on using a Great Axe in an EXP party until 60 when I can sub SAM and do Break > Ragining Rush. However, at 66, I'll be switching back to /NIN and axes for Mythril Axe.

[Ziguld]

As war/nin its generally better to focus on being a damage dealer than a tank. You could solo tank, but its just not as effective as a pld or nin tank. If you have a nin + thf in pt you'll be 1st voke and take no damage because of utsusemi. Remember to always blink 5 with the utsus if possible. Saves mp on heals.

Always keep utsusemi up, especially when you zerk + aggy. Even the best of pld tanks can't easily keep up with the hate you dish out when you're going wild (nor can the mob withstand it for long).

If you're with a ninja tank pay attention to his utsus casting. If he gets hit voke the mob off him to buy him the time he needs. Its not like you're gonna take any damage cause you're keeping utsus up.

Warcry I've found is best to hold if you're in a pt with a thf. If you get an add provoke is just not enough hate to get the mob off the mage and onto you after sleep. You will need to get the mob onto you to set up the trick. Toss warcry out and you have control of the situation again. Position away and let the thf do it's magic.

Provided your tank is good, if you pull hate, don't defender. The damage you take is hate you lose. Using defender just makes you lose less hate from being hit and generate less damage. A good tank, especially PLD can take this moment to heal you and in the process generate more hate for themselves. If you're quesy at the thought of watching your HP go down and back up then use Defender... but'll slow down that fight.