Damage Log results, suprise!

[Lupine]

Yes his level was definately against him in this group.

Even with Prelude he struggled a bit on accuracy and Sidewinders.
He was using elemental arrows and generally high damage shots so I think his gear was ok.

And Captio is probably the best ninja I've played with. Our whitemage was using 80% mp on hasting the group.

[imstimpy]

This, no doubt, falls back to who is contributing things that are not shown in the logs. If the DRK was doing a lot of enfeebles and absorbs, they will not be reflected in the damage of the DRK but as an overall increase in the melee/mage effectiveness. Regardless, it is always nice to see yourself putting out those numbers. Even more so are your convincing results as you grace the top time and time again (and this is what the damage whores all care about).

I've kept logs myself here and there and I come up on top enough to convince me that the damage is there. I don't have any definitive results such as yours, though, since I'm 1 level away from my bread and butter WS.

As somebody else said, DRK/THF has nothing going for it. I haven't played with a DRK/THF at my level, but I've played with a DRK/WAR and a DRK/RDM and the DRK/WAR was considerably more effective. I have yet to share the damage dealer position with a DRK. If there is a DRK in my group, I'm usually on the receiving end trying to the keep the mob pointed my way. If you hunt down Antawns DRK guide, he states that from 0-60 DRK should sub WAR and never look back. Once lv49 is hit, the DRG shifts as the greater damage dealing potential. Once lv55 is hit, the DRK shifts down to the lowest damage dealing potential. They surge back strongly at lv60 as one of the kings.

[Wings of Icarus]

Re:

Originally posted by tomiko
I Dark Knights.

Yes, War will own most melee (cept mnk and rng) with double attack, zerk, aggressor, sturmwind, rampage and raging rush, for quite a few lvl's. Even Guillotine isnt that impressive if u cant get all hits to land. BUT Drk/thf get thier heyday at lvl 66 with Cross Reaper and Spinning Slash. They ARE the stongest lvl3 SC closers.

I've found my self tanking a lot these days, so I look for a drk if i want the mob dead fast. My setup is usually something like war drk mnk brd rdm blm. Spinning Axe-> Howling Fist -> SA/TA Spinning Slash is insane. If the chain isnt resisted the drk ends with ~1k WS + ~1.5k light, killing the mob instantly. His high was like 1.3k+1.7k... talk about killing a Crawler in one hit. :spin:

I've found new fun in the level grind now with the immense power we have now... chain#5 on IT for ~250-280xp is easy... we try for #6 on VT... and its hella fun... drk goes nut's and doesnt cancel souleater @_@; ~300 per hit and dying fast... I tank like a champ tho... zerk aggressor + Rampage for ~600 all hate on me, mob doesnt last b4 2 blinks wears off....rdm converts and we're good to go again.

I feel a bit lacking in the dmg department recently... mistral axe's dmg is streaky... ~200-600 lol.. and no new good axe to buy, But then again I'm tanking and I know i own the other tanking classes in dmg. Its fun managing blink, defender, zerk, aggressor, to make the most of my tanking. Oh yeah... and mithra parry like the dicken's...3x parry and blink still on =

Christ, you make me want to leave work right now and go lvl my char -_-....

.5 Skill lvls from Cross Reaper.

(owner)

[imstimpy]

I am now in the same level bracket as Bigokk: 55-60. I have entered into a static party where I am a primary damage dealer and tanking duties are provided by a PLD. Due to weapons and party configuration, we have been filling out the other melee slot with DRKs (no RNGs have been around). There have been two such occasions where we have done done this configuration; totalling around 22k experience. In our party, a dark knight's role is not primary damage dealer because they simply cannot keep up with the MNK, WAR, and RNG; instead they are the utility class to debuff and provide the weapon skills for the big skill chains.

Just as Bigokk, I find myself all the way up at the top. On a hit per hit basis, my two axes will deal slightly less damage than the scythe. If double attack fires, then the axes exceed the damage easily. TP production is typically on the order of 25-100% more, where the DRK/WAR generates more and the DRK/THF generates less. My equipment configuration is that of accuracy, so I am hitting for less damage per hit, but landing most hits. I currently have but one piece of exotic equipment worth a mere 230k; I do have +16 STR, ~+25 ACC, and ~+35 ATK without food, however.

I want to go ahead and reiterate that DRKs should NOT sub THF until they hit 60. Hit for hit, the DRK/WAR trounces the DRK/THF in every way.

This is not to bag on dark knights, but since everybody uses them as the benchmark for damage dealing, I am also comparing to them. This is merely to show that a WAR can be an outstanding damage dealer; to show that a WAR loses nothing by being versatile. I've done some comparisons to MNKs too and have been amazed at their sheer damage output. People say they are gimped on shell mobs, and yet they still are one of the top damage dealers at this level. I played with two 50-55 where we were both damage dealers. One was well equipped with kote and jujitsu gi and doing 400-500 damage raging fists and one was marginal doing 100-200 damage raging fists.

[Ariesknight]

Just how good is Aggressor, people tell me WAR really shines with this ability, how good is it really?

[Synbios]

Originally posted by Ariesknight
Just how good is Aggressor, people tell me WAR really shines with this ability, how good is it really?

V
V
V

[Ariesknight]

Aggressor sounds like the s***! 5 more hits than a DRK with 'uber' Acc. increase! Aggressor sounds like an awesome WAR Ability!

[Bigokk McGock]

He's a sarcastic little Taru, it's much much more than 5...

[Synbios]

Originally posted by Bigokk McGock
He's a sarcastic little Taru, it's much much more than 5...

D;
(;´д⊂)
Don't forget you're wasting precious time in between pulls, unless you're some crazy gozanuts like Russta who pulls 2 mobs back.

Gozanuts is a made up word BTW.

[Ednoon]

you are posting warrior with best dmg sub job comparing dark knight with least sub job at that level. it nothing to compare.

try both sub a level 1 mage next time.

[Karinya]

He compared to both drk/war and drk/thf (unsurprisingly the drk/war did better, double attack and berserk >>> sneak attack alone; but drk/thf is still good for genkai 1, coffers and other item hunts although it's merely OK for exp party).

One of the above posts commented that drk's absorbs won't be reflected in his damage but provide utility to the party - this isn't quite right. They *will* be reflected in his damage - as a decrease, because he isn't swinging while he casts. (Unless he only casts one absorb per fight while the mob is chasing the puller back to camp, and even then, it may delay his first swing). In addition if the drk doesn't get refresh he may occasionally have to sacrifice some tp (usually only 10% if he times it right though) to get his mp back, depending on how much he can get from aspir. (Because of this, as a RDM, I try to toss DRKs an occasional refresh, usually when they get below half MP. Although their MP isn't as important as mine or the PLD's or WHM's, I wouldn't want them to stop casting altogether.)

So the drk is sacrificing some of his own damage to increase the party's damage (or decrease the damage suffered, depending on what he absorbs, but agi and vit are the most common ones). On the other hand, the extra damage other members do because of warcry isn't credited to the warrior by log programs either. Damage is more complicated than it appears.

[Stolin]

Even after 60 warrior can be an attack class. A well-equipped warrior /thf can do 900 with raging rush. That does compare well with any other melees damage besides ranger. And i do aggree that warriors damage starts slipping under par compared to monks and DRKs when you can start doing that Lv3 renkei sheit. All around i love the warrior class, they are a lot more useful as a tank anyways i don't really care about their dmg even though they can do it.

One weird fact is that warrior can do the 2nd most dmg out of all jobs all the way until monk gets raging fists which war goes into 3rd. They get the best weapons with the best stats at lowre levels. I mean an axe with +5 accuracy at lvl 20 damn. They get sturmwind at lvl 23 which easily does 100+ which is amazing for a melee at that level. Lv 30 warrior with enough dex+ can do like 300 dmg with sneak+sturm wind. And their regular attacks hit nicely as well. At lv41 monk beats out warrior pretty soundly with raging fists and all that awesome lvl 40 equip they get. But monks beat out every class then until lv 60 besides ranger. Oh well just a little trivia for u.

[modnar]

Ah. So true. WAR is such a nice job. I would have gone with WAR if it hadn't been for the horrible AF armor :sweat:

[imstimpy]

Right now, 50% of the MNKs I've played with have been impressive (and Mithran haha). Like the WAR, it appears to take a lot to get the obscene numbers I have come to expect. A 400 dmg chi blast is kind of disturbing. A consistant 200 damage raging fists, however, is not.

I participated in my first level 3 skillchain last night (coffer key hunting in Eldieme with a lv65 PLD). Vorpal Scythe 200 dmg >> Rampage 600 dmg for Distortion 400 dmg >> Swift Blade 500 dmg for Darkness 800 dmg on BONES! I hear dark knights become really powerful once they get spin rush and can close light. All of their attack boosts no doubt would play a huge role in the effectiveness of this single weapon skill. We closed a level 3 with only 500 dmg to generate a massive 800 dmg level 3 darkness chain. As tomiko said, ending with a powerful skill such as an attack boosted spinning rush can approach 2000-3000 damage. This is what defines the dark knight. Swing for swing, I know MNK and WAR can keep up.

I'm not sure that I agree with a blanket statement saying we are a lot more useful as a tank. Perhaps this changes once I get my AF3, but most people think we can replace a PLD in the party structure and it just isn't true. Right now, as much as I hate to admit it, a THF is almost mandatory. Sure I can tank and am happy to do so, but the mob is going to spend some time running around because the hate generation isn't quite there. Mind you, I've only had one PT that actually new how to play with a WAR tank and it did work incredibly well. I've never once had a proper party where I had myself a THF friend helping me keep aggro, however. As I said, it may change in another 4 levels, but I feel more effective as a damage dealer than a tank.

I got called to sub THF and use breaks last night. The party did a little over 4000 exp/hr with no ranger and no black mage. We had a NIN and THF creating distortion, MNK soloing raging fists, and a WAR/THF soloing shield break. No logs from the party but the exp/hr speaks for itself; I was more of a utility damage dealer. I've had that kind of experience on a few occasions, but never while I was tank. My peak exp/hr as a tank was around 3000-3500. Again, I have never had an optimal WAR tanking party.

[EDIT] For those that have a distaste for the WAR AF, you just have to be a female model to appreciate it. That, or get yourself a haubergeon and don't tank ; ; Besides, it is only 12 levels until you can wear the thick set anyway :p

[phr0st]

yeah, I have a pretty big problem conceeding that warrior outdamages me when you're using a 57 drk/thf as comparison.

Every DRK knows that /thf is pretty gimp until 60, and even then, the only reason we originally did it then was because of hate control with spamming guillotine before the multi-hit ws nerf. Now, Drks have the option to go /war until 65, or if you can't find a thf, SATA onto the tank with /thf at 60 is feasible, but still not as optimal as drk/war.

drk/thf at 57 loses berserk and double attack, also, was the drk eating food?

To be honest, it looks like the DRK you used in comparison either:

1. Doesn't know what he's doing with his job which could play a big factor in his damage. (I.E. the drk that goes SE+LR+Berserk for WS and wastes them), and also his equipment choice.

or

2. Knows what he's supposed to do, and is just too lazy to do it. Which could also play a factor in his gear and setup. Sure he NEEDS those sniper rings, but why bother when he can slide by without them?

Either way, I'd be interested to see a parser of your optimally equipped warrior vs. a DRK with the following setup (my setup, coincidentally):

Main - Vassago's scythe
head - Valk Mask (if you're 60 by now, AF helm is acceptable for DRK)
neck - R.K. Collar
Earrings - 1x Assault; 1x spike
Body - Either R.K. Mail, AF body, or Haubergeon
Waist - life belt
legs - R.K. legs or AF legs
Feet - R.K or AF
Rings - 2x Snipers
Back - relatively unimportant.


This is an "optimally equipped" Dark, as I'm sure you're an optimally equipped warrior. Also, I'd like to see a dark who we KNOW is eating food and has a completely leveled /war sub.

Do you think you could provide?

I'd be interested to see.