WAR/NIN Arguements

[Ariesknight]

I am 32WAR/MNK and am a little tired of MNK and for variation am gonna try and sub NIN. Now I have been to the NIN Forum and seen a post about how high level 74+ WAR/NIN "suck" compared to NIN/WAR. Both sides had decent arguements but the NIN always said they won in the DMG department and that a WAR with NIn sub above 74+ sucks because they lose shadows fast and are bad tanks, despite the highest armour in the gamea dn Defender, a 25% defense boost... They also said any 70+ WAR subbing NIN needs "serious help", so does that mean the 15 75WAR/NIN on Siren need serioius help and never get party invites because NIN/WAR is better...is it jsut me or is there some flawed logic here?
Anyone help out someone taking WAR to 75 who is a little disconcerted about subbing NIN?

[Bigokk McGock]

Both sides had decent arguements but the NIN always said they won in the DMG department and that a WAR with NIn sub above 74+ sucks because they lose shadows fast and are bad tanks, despite the highest armour in the gamea dn Defender, a 25% defense boost... They also said any 70+ WAR subbing NIN needs "serious help", so does that mean the 15 75WAR/NIN on Siren need serioius help and never get party invites because NIN/WAR is better...is it jsut me or is there some flawed logic here?

Replace NIN in your statement with WAR and WAR with NIN and that's what you're going to hear in this forum.

I'm biased of course, just the same as the NIN are about their job.

Ninjas will hit for 0 a lot and that's all I am going to say about their so called "win" in the damage department.

I'd put up the deed to my house on the fact that the best geared WAR/NIN will outdamage the best geared NIN/WAR.

EDIT:

Tanks are situational.

PLD/WAR make the best tank for some monsters, NIN/WAR make the best for some and WAR/NIN make the best for others.

But THE BEST tank in the game (IMO) is a 75 PLD/NIN with a provoke stone (Imperial Egg).

[Ozymandis]

There is a lot of bias in the NIN forum, because WAR/NIN at 74 has among some the reputation of being better than NIN/WAR. I can't verify that for true, I did see a 75 WAR/NIN in action before and it was impressive.

The fact that most WARs at 75 are /NIN should tell you that there is definitely flawed logic going on there.

Katanas are so weak at most points. Not much better than a dagger. This puts a real damper on the damage that NIN can do. That, and the katana weaponskills.

[tomiko]

What did u expect coming from the nin forum?

Nin is the best endgame sub for wars, hands down.

Hell i even tank well with 1/2 blink and a bard, and i sure outdamage any nin with rampage.

It's a LONG way to lvl 74 , but i've seen war/nin that level in action and its so sexy...

[Ariesknight]

Thought so, thanks guys.

[Funguwari]

NIN... more damage than WAR? ...What?

That's like saying, "WHMs do more damage than DRKs w/their clubs."

Everyone says WARs are one of the most damaging melees... and it's true... we are...

Katannas Dual'd... more than... Axes...?

I'm sorry, but you will hear some biased comments on this board... but damn... how can you get THAT biased?

Insecure...

I think they're just saying that because Squenix never meant NINs to be tanks (yes, Square themselves said it) and that's all NIN can "really" do, at least from what I've seen. A non-tanking NIN is a wasted spot... either way, I think they're recruiting a bunch of NINs so that when Squenix gimps Blink tanking they won't have to go down alone.

Vrs. HNMs I hear WAR/NIN is better than NIN/WAR (74+...) because the mobs Lv is so high NINs dodging skills aren't good, and if their dodging isn't good than WAR takes cake 'cause of their high VIT, HP and DEF and able to wear plate-type armor (high DEF armor). This is what I heard.

But in regular EXP PTs... NIN/WARs the better tank 'cause the dodging makes the most of the shadows.

But... NIN... going near WAR... damage wise? Vrs. "hard" monsters (like Beetles and Crabs) I don't see any damage done, even w/a Ochuido's Kote, I mean 0. Then, vrs. other types of mobs, I see NINs damage on par w/THFs (of course, we're NOT INCLUDING fuidama/yokodama) ...meaning: THF hits mob w/dagger for X. NIN hits mob w/Katana for same damage as THF.

To say NIN goes near WAR damage wise... ... ... ... ... ... either you must be really threatend by WARs to say something so untrue.

[Nameless]

NIN can do just as much damage as us with Shurikens.

[Ozymandis]

On hard enemies katanas really are awful. Last party I was in with a NIN we had a lot of trouble fighting beetles in Garliage basement. NIN couldn't hold aggro, ended up with me, the DRK, and BLM constantly grabbing it.

Then we got a PLD tank, and all was well. He left after a couple of thousand experience and damned if I didn't tank and hold aggro with my GAXE better than that Ninja had :p

Originally posted by Nameless
NIN can do just as much damage as us with Shurikens.

You'd have to spam them. That's not cost-effective.

[Necromon]

war/nin best tank.

[lun4tic]

I'm a level 40 War/Nin.

Dual wielding is more powerful then the great axe, and you have more opportunites to double strike. And im my oppinion, double strike works more with a one handed weapon. I've four pieced so many enemies it's not a surprise when I do it anymore.

Utsusemi: Ichi sucks. And Utsu: Ni isn't much better. U:I works for four hits, then becomes a bitch to recast. You have to have 2 vokers to voke abck and forth while you can recast, which defeats the point of using it to minimize damage. U:N is an instant recast, but throws away your money even faster.

Dual Wield, Subtle Blow, and Stealth are the onle abilities worth having. Ninjutsu is worthless in my opinion unless you're soloing or helping out with quests and have time to recast between simple battles.

War/Nin ROCKS. Ninjas are better subbed.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by Ozymandis
On hard enemies katanas really are awful. Last party I was in with a NIN we had a lot of trouble fighting beetles in Garliage basement. NIN couldn't hold aggro, ended up with me, the DRK, and BLM constantly grabbing it.

Then we got a PLD tank, and all was well. He left after a couple of thousand experience and damned if I didn't tank and hold aggro with my GAXE better than that Ninja had :p



You'd have to spam them. That's not cost-effective.

And using shihei isn't cost effective too

You're a nin, be ready to blow cash.

[Sasarai]

How can you expect to win any argument concerning Ninja if the Ninja's you analyze are crappy ones?

It's pretty much given that crappy player will perform badly at a job versus a good player.

[Ozymandis]

Originally posted by Nameless


And using shihei isn't cost effective too

You're a nin, be ready to blow cash.

Have you looked at the price of the top two tiers of shuriken lately? It's so far beyond cost-effective that it's not even relevant to this discussion.

If it were so great, why don't you see a ton of NIN/RNG DDs out there? The reason is obvious. Other damage dealers are more efficient and more feasible, such as RNG, MNK, DRK, and WAR.

No, NIN is not a great damage dealer. They only offer situational tanking to a group. I would never invite a Ninja for anything else.

[Nameless]

Um, you don't need top of the line shurikens.

Your arguement makes no sense, they have a way to hold hate, but oh wait, it costs too much, lets not do it. And top line shurikens? What are those, level 70? Ok...so use the the other shurikens for your other 70 levels.

Cost effective? This is a joke, right? I believe the level 20ish shurikens are 2k by the stack, then the next upgrade is at level 40ish I think and they don't cost that much either. If you're a NIN you need to be rich, and if you want to tank you need shurikens.

Or are you just calling NINs useless because you're very biased?

EDIT: And if you want to talk about cost-effective, there is a NIN in my ls who wont go past 25 until he has everything he wants. Currently he has 1 million dollars worth of equip (he bought all of it), he uses shurikens, and has tons of shihei, all he needs is a 200k mantle and he says he will level again.

My point being, NIN needs money, don't even argue that.

[Lupine]

You dont need shurikens to hold aggro ><.

And level 40 shurikens are 30-50k per stack - hardly cost effective.