SA/TA + Raging Rush

[specular]

Initially I was a little disappointed in the WS Raging Rush (2H Greataxe). Sure, it takes a decent amount of mob HP but I think that Rampage (1H Axe) does more.

I was killing Guardian Crawler with a PLD friend yesterday and since we were basically just fooling around a little, I decided to get 300% TP, hit Berserk/SA and use Raging Rush. "The Guardian Crawler takes 1355 points of damage." The highest I ever did on Too Weak mobs is around 900.

Later a RDM friend joined us for Drone and I was experimenting with Trick Attack a little. Not surprisingly, SA/TA on the Paladin would stick it to him like glue. SA/TA for 105% TP on the RDM would only last one Provoke cycle, but 200%+ would work as effectively as on the PLD.


If someone can tell me from actual in-game experience : how effective is SA/TA when subbing Thief ?

[Izual]

It depends on the weaponskill. When you use SA from thf subbed, it only has the effect of a guaranteed critical on the 1st attack. So for something like raging rush, only the 1st of the 3 hits will be modified, so it isn't too effective on raging rush. SA works best on high-damage single-hit weaponskills (like spinning slash for drk). I've seen a few wars sub thf and do something like SA+mistral axe, but most sub ninja at high levels.

In general, SA from thf sub seems to work well on most 225 and quest weaponskills, and not so well on everything else. There are exceptions to this of course, but from what I've observed this is where it seems to be most effective.

[TokeN]

if you didnt know, TA doesn't adda any damage, just the hate passing property..

[Nameless]

Originally posted by TokeN
if you didnt know, TA doesn't adda any damage, just the hate passing property..

WTF?

Yes it does.

As my THF my normal swings are weak, maybe 12 damage, using trick attack it is 30 damamge.

Have you even actually tried this?

[stabby]

Trick attack on your main job has a damage multiplier linked to AGI. Trick attack on a sub does not.

[specular]

Thanks Izual, yeah I had only recently experimented. It does make sense that it only affects the first hit, I was playing an hour ago trying stuff out and I noticed it better.

Just figuring out what to do post-60
Since I got a PLD on the team I might go /NIN for the DRK/THF Guillotine.

[Balodoth]

SATA interaction

The next logical question is how Sneak Attack and Trick Attack interact. If Sneak does 4-10x dmg (trying to remember the exact numbers) and Trick does 2-3x dmg and my attack does its dmg, how is the end dmg calculated?

Is it (SA + TA) x WS = dmg, or is it SA x TA x WS = dmg?

If the former is the case, then +Dex gear is best as it will increase SA and accuracy. If the latter is the case, then +Agi is ideal since one higher multiplier on TA further amplifies SA and therefore damage.

Then again, if it's something else altogether, please tell me so that I can milk the situation accordingly.

[stabby]

There's not a lot of info out on the math behind this sort of thing. The best I've been able to find has been this. I'm working on getting better info in English, but it's a difficult proposition.

[Funguwari]

Excuse me... I'm sorry but I have a question about Trick Attack.

I know the more DMG the move does the more hate is on the person who is being tricked off of. But, since WARs have high Enmity+ will (will is a key word, it indicates it's a question...) this effect the hate given to the person being Tricked off of?

Because w/all of our Enmity+ gear, if this was true, then even if a move itself didn't do much DMG the Enmity would back it up... in the end making the mob stick like glue to the Tricked one.

Agian, this is something I pondered which means, this was something I'm thinking. I do not know if it's true, I also do not know because I'm not high to experement. I was just sitting in my room thinking that maybe WARs high Enmity+ from AF gear would help in fuidama at all.

Anyway, I'm sorry for all the bolds and big sizes but some people will read it and say, "Dude! Stop lying and spreading false rumors...! You're a troll!" When in fact... I'm only asking a question... not stating fact... or anything like... not even trying to prove that it's true... just something I thought of and thought to myself, "Hmm, maybe since you're sticking hate on someone w/fuidama, maybe w/higher Enmity from our AF we might have a more 'aggro-friendly' fuidama then let's say... DRK?"

Anyway, please answer my question.

[kisada]

rofl

Can't say for sure, but most likely yeah. Reason being is that some THF gear (af2? don't remember) has enmity+, and it's basically meant to create more effective fuidamas. If this is true, I'd say the same would go for war enmity+.

[stabby]

Theoretically, yes, +enmity transfers with fuidama. However, unless you have a macro to swap your enmity gear in only for fuidama, your hits for the non-fuidama portions of the fight will also be creating a bunch of aggro for yourself. Also, the primary value in endgame DRK or MNK fuidama (Spinning Slash/Cross Reaper for Light/Dark and Dragon Kick for Light, respectively) is the fact that it's a bunch of damage being slapped onto the tank, and, ending a renkei, produces a nice, big, level 3 burst effect. WARs are far better at starting renkeis than they are at finishing them for high damage, at least until 71 when Steel Cyclone comes into play -- I'm not sure if that changes anything, and I don't have enough information to tell you.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that while yes, our AF enmity should transfer with one fuidama hit, if that means that we do around half the damage of the equivalent DRK or MNK renkei finish, then we shouldn't be wasting our time -- better to kill the monster faster and get some use out of utsusemi shadows than to have it stapled to the tank for all eternity but die very slowly.

[Funguwari]

Understood, thanks for your input. :D

[bside]

the purpose of using SA w/ THF sub isn't just the dmg factor; not only it's a guaranteed critical hit, but it's a 100% hit.

yeah, u could miss Spinning Slash if u don't use SA, but w/ SA, that won't happen, guaranteed. MNK's Dragon Kick won't miss, guaranteed. also, for MNK's technically-2-hit WS' such as Dragon Kick and Howling Fists, they become guaranteed-2-hits w/ SA, while u could miss either without.