WAR tanking

[Nameless]

Re: Re: great tanks use shields

Originally posted by Funguwari


I doubt you use both... to be honest. Saying that you use a 1-H sword (eww, gross... the beauty of WAR is being able to deal damage and tank some... just to let you know, I would never, ever invite any WARs w/a 1-H sword... but sadly, that's all you pre-30 WARs use... it makes me sick... you're basically not giving a shit about your PT and totally ignoring what your job really is... which means you don't know how to play; therefore, no invite start giving a shit about your PT's EXP instead of gimping it you fool).

You should be using a 1-H axe and shield... and a great axe, both, like Nameless said... heck you should be using a TON of weapons... if not all. But, great axe and axe are the main.

Nameless you scared me though before when you said "PLDs don't use shields for defense they use it for blocking attacks"... seriously... it never dawned on me that blocking attacks wasn't defense because it is. The extra points of DEF and the blocking attacks is defense in general.

Wow, whoever said they outdamage a great axe, w/the sword quit now. The reason why I would say quit is because you're obviously playing w/a blindfold on and we obviously don't need people who who do that.

I really should have been more clear. What I was trying to say is, it's a different kind of defense, you know?

Like shield actuall defense stat is about, 4, that's not going to help much in the actuall stat of defense. But the great thing about a shield is that it can negate attacks completely.

I suck at wording things

[Meimei]

If the monster is weak against Ice or Wind I use Great Axe to tank. What i will do is to use Shield Break or Armor Break at the begining of the battle.

Shield Break: Ice Based. Kills enemy's Evasion
Good against. Yagudo. Beelte. Fish. Crab. Lizzard. Fly. Bird. Bee. Scorpion. Crawler. Mandora. Octopus. Spider. Wyven.

Armor Break: Wind Based. Kills enemy's Defence
Good against. Worm. Bat. Lizzard. Mandora. Dhaimel. Antican.

If the Monsters are not weak againt Ice or Wind. I use Axe/Shield. Sword/Shield only if i need to use Red Lotus Blade.

_______________

Warrior 72
Thief 37
Ninja 37
Samurai 35 <retired>
Monk 15
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?17309
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?17313

[Scatman]

With the lower delay I have on my short sword (lvl 19, attack 13, delay 216, dex +2) i hit my full tp 3x as fast as ANYONE using a g.axe. So maybe one WS attack from a g.axe is a tad stronger, but in the course of 3 battles I will always deliver more dmg. I hit nearly as often as mnks do, and build much higher tp...that and tell me how a sword that adds dex +2 is worthless to a defensive war?

You do realize that different weapons have different TP gains per blow right? Swinging fast doesn't automatically mean you'll get a ton of TP.

[LoneWarriorNY]

look just a quick reply then im going to bed...

on my server tonight i was out-tanking everyone and everything with a good fast delay sword/shield combo..plus my armor and defense are very high, but in quifim with my 23war/11mnk there havent even been paladins tanking like me this weekend.

for my character he does best with a sword and shield combo...i will restate anyone who honestly thinks a sword is a bad weapon for an elvaan war/mnk is clueless and a noob.

i do GREAt, and play with ppl that use the g.axe combo every night, and i wind up tanking...my guy blocks, covers up, parrries, uses his shield, and hits hard, quick and often...and i usually NEVER lose the hate of any battle...

basicaly my point is when that's what's going on, im not going to change things because of what someone else says...i know results when i see them (fyi i do carry 1h axes to use as opposed to the swords when the situation calls on it) ...but i tank WELL...plan on staying as tank, with modest dmg dealing, at war/mnk...gonna take that all the way.

nothing wrong with sword though and if you assume there is you just lack a certain lvl of common sense, such as taking accuracy, dexterity, other things into account...swords do things like that...i could go on and on, but some of you really need to stop acting like you know EVERYTHING about the game...because what a couple of you (not you nameless, this was never directed at you in the "swords suck" way, i know you never said that") are saying is totally assesinine.

[Stormwalker]

You do realize that as your level increases your accuracy with sword will start to noticably fall off, right?

Sure, at 23, you can hit with a sword just fine. The skill is only 4 points lower than your axe/g.axe skill is. The higher level you get, the more your sword skill becomes deficient compared to your axe and great axe skills. The gap widens.

I'll say, though. At level 24 WAR, I have capped skill in Sword, Great Sword, Axe, Great Axe, and Club. I can't speak for anyone else, but *I* notice an accuracy improvement when I switch to my A-rank weapons (axe, great axe). I intend to keep both of these capped as long as I level WAR (I'll be stopping at 37, for fully leveled sub for my PLD all the way to 75). Obviously keeping Sword capped is not a problem; just from my PLD levels my sword will be in blue numbers all the way to 37 WAR. When I go out to party as a WAR, I carry at least two weapons (Axe and Great Axe) and often three (Adding Sword as well, in case it's needed for skillchain purposes). But I have yet to have a party ask me to use Sword even when they know it's available, because even they can see that I hit better with the axe and the great axe, both for accuracy and damage.

Right now, I'm using mostly Great Axe for tanking... I like the damage, and my shield skill is capped so I don't need to raise it any. Once I get to the point where my WAR levels exceed my shield skill, I will probably use Axe/Shield except when I need to raise G.Axe skill to keep it capped, simply because Shield is a royal pain to level... but that depends on how it affects my hate-holding. If it seems to have a serious detrimental effect, I'll stay with the Great Axe anyhow. Right now I don't notice much difference between Axe and Great Axe, not like I do between either of those and Sword.

I don't like tanking as a WAR, because I don't feel at level 24 at least that I have the proper tools to hold aggro (I guess I am spoiled by playing Paladin)... but if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it right... and compromising my hate-holding by using a less accurate, less damaging weapon isn't on the agenda.

[Deodorant]

Originally posted by LoneWarriorNY

anyone who honestly thinks a sword is a bad weapon for an elvaan war/mnk is clueless and a noob.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :

[rathi692000]

Switch to WAR/NIN and dual weild 1h axes

[ZQM]

Lone, is youre Axe skilled capped?

You're using a Small Sword, the best axe at your level would be a Battle Axe +1 (But for better comparision I'll use the normal Battle Axe). Well, let's look at the damage and delay of both

Battle Axe DMG: 20
Small Sword DMG: 13

Battle Axe has a lot more DMG then a Small Sword. Even so much as 1 point of DMG has a lot better outcome on the damage you do.

Battle Axe Delay: 276
Small Sword Delay: 226

Small Sword wins in delay, just like you said. By a full .5 milliseconds! Look out, that's going to make a huge difference in the time between hits.

Battle Axes DMG/DLY: .072 (rounded down)
Small Sword DMG/DLY: .057 (rounded down)

Yet some how, you're Small Sword (which is one of the worst damage swords at it's level) does more damage? Oh but wait, it does add to stats.

Battle Axes added stats: Accuracy +4 Attack +4 (when level is compared to Small Sword level at your current level)
Small Sword added stats: Dex +2, so +1 ACC and an added small chance of a critical.

Ok, so Battle Axe has more DMG, very close to the same delay, better accuracy, and +attack. Small Sword adds a little more to crittical rate and better delay.

This has nothing to do with opinions. This is numbers computer by the game, cold hard facts. Numbers don't lie.

BTW, if you're big reason for having a sword for hate is because of delay, why not go with a dagger?

[Ghostraven]

Originally posted by LoneWarriorNY
you're going to argue that a shield is basically worthless when in fact a defensive warrior (who will always tank 10x better than YOUR thf, or any mnk)

sorry but my mnk holds hate better than 90% of war I have PT with, and also better than a few PLD who don't know what they are doing.

Don't generalize kthxbye

Originally posted by LoneWarriorNY

I hit nearly as often as mnks do, and build much higher tp..

lol you will notice after around 30 monks get tp at an insane rate and without meditate i can keep up with a sam, leaving most war behind. (tp wise). Like was stated earlier, the mid 20's is too early to see how different Axes and swords are for war. The higher you go, the more accurate and damaging Great axe and 1h axe will get when properly skilled up in the hands of a war. there's a reason why the war af weapon is an axe.....
Check any level 70ish war in jeuno, he will be using an axe of some sort, or axe/sword, axe/axe if sub /nin.

[Funguwari]

Re: Re: Re: great tanks use shields

Originally posted by Nameless


I really should have been more clear. What I was trying to say is, it's a different kind of defense, you know?

Like shield actuall defense stat is about, 4, that's not going to help much in the actuall stat of defense. But the great thing about a shield is that it can negate attacks completely.

I suck at wording things

Oh, understood.

Yeah, I know what you mean now, and I agree totally.

[Funguwari]

Originally posted by LoneWarriorNY
look just a quick reply then im going to bed...

on my server tonight i was out-tanking everyone and everything with a good fast delay sword/shield combo..plus my armor and defense are very high, but in quifim with my 23war/11mnk there havent even been paladins tanking like me this weekend.

for my character he does best with a sword and shield combo...i will restate anyone who honestly thinks a sword is a bad weapon for an elvaan war/mnk is clueless and a noob.

i do GREAt, and play with ppl that use the g.axe combo every night, and i wind up tanking...my guy blocks, covers up, parrries, uses his shield, and hits hard, quick and often...and i usually NEVER lose the hate of any battle...

basicaly my point is when that's what's going on, im not going to change things because of what someone else says...i know results when i see them (fyi i do carry 1h axes to use as opposed to the swords when the situation calls on it) ...but i tank WELL...plan on staying as tank, with modest dmg dealing, at war/mnk...gonna take that all the way.

nothing wrong with sword though and if you assume there is you just lack a certain lvl of common sense, such as taking accuracy, dexterity, other things into account...swords do things like that...i could go on and on, but some of you really need to stop acting like you know EVERYTHING about the game...because what a couple of you (not you nameless, this was never directed at you in the "swords suck" way, i know you never said that") are saying is totally assesinine.

/points at the part where he says "hits hard".

Ha, ha, ha... wow... if you think you hit hard w/a sword, then you're the clueless "n00b"...

The only reason why you pre-30 WARs use swords is because it's cheap as dirt and you don't have the money for a Axe, or, Great axe, so, stop covering up poor money making skills w/lame ass lies.

Not saying sword sucks, but, chances are, you aren't using sword for a skillchain, even then, a WAR/NIN w/a Sword and a Axe in the 2nd hand is acceptable. But, WAR/MNK w/a Sword and a Shield for tanking, or, DD (WTF ARE YOU USING SWORD FOR DAMAGE?!) Axe would be better.

[Funguwari]

Originally posted by ZQM
Lone, is youre Axe skilled capped?

You're using a Small Sword, the best axe at your level would be a Battle Axe +1 (But for better comparision I'll use the normal Battle Axe). Well, let's look at the damage and delay of both

Battle Axe DMG: 20
Small Sword DMG: 13

Battle Axe has a lot more DMG then a Small Sword. Even so much as 1 point of DMG has a lot better outcome on the damage you do.

Battle Axe Delay: 276
Small Sword Delay: 226

Small Sword wins in delay, just like you said. By a full .5 milliseconds! Look out, that's going to make a huge difference in the time between hits.

Battle Axes DMG/DLY: .072 (rounded down)
Small Sword DMG/DLY: .057 (rounded down)

Yet some how, you're Small Sword (which is one of the worst damage swords at it's level) does more damage? Oh but wait, it does add to stats.

Battle Axes added stats: Accuracy +4 Attack +4 (when level is compared to Small Sword level at your current level)
Small Sword added stats: Dex +2, so +1 ACC and an added small chance of a critical.

Ok, so Battle Axe has more DMG, very close to the same delay, better accuracy, and +attack. Small Sword adds a little more to crittical rate and better delay.

This has nothing to do with opinions. This is numbers computer by the game, cold hard facts. Numbers don't lie.

BTW, if you're big reason for having a sword for hate is because of delay, why not go with a dagger?

Nice post, nice post. Not to mention that at his Lv's at what he's facing the 1-H axe's WSs are better because he should be vrs'ing Clippers and Swords have Red Lotus, which is Fire, and Clippers are Water, so, go figure. And if you reply I use it for skillchains... well... creating Fusion or, Liqueification of Clippers isn't gonna fix your downtime problem... Raging Axe is a good WS at that Lv.

[Rico]

The only reason I personaly see myself rasing my sword skill are for two things. One is for Spirits Within and the other is for Skill Chain reasons 1 handed axe outdamages sword no question I wont even agure that. Plus why would you pick sword over axe you have a A rating! it's like being a monk and chosing 2hand club for damage. As for Tanking I go with GAXE... just from the fact most of the Warriors depend on there damage to hold hate than spam cures. Plus if you are going to tank have a Thief into the party! Warrior's can't tank like a paladin they have it so much easier but Warriors do well in my opinion because you can take hits but you're hitting the monster with great damage not like a paladin hitting 2... 1..3... points of damage in Kuftal or Boyoda crabs. While you hit 41-60 a hit with no buffs

[Nameless]

Originally posted by Funguwari


Nice post, nice post. Not to mention that at his Lv's at what he's facing the 1-H axe's WSs are better because he should be vrs'ing Clippers and Swords have Red Lotus, which is Fire, and Clippers are Water, so, go figure. And if you reply I use it for skillchains... well... creating Fusion or, Liqueification of Clippers isn't gonna fix your downtime problem... Raging Axe is a good WS at that Lv.

I would like to agree.

With Axe/Great Axe you have more renkei possibilties. In 1 more level, 24, he will fight mandra's in yuhtunga, which are weak to ice and wind, both of which a great axe can do in renkeis. This is something limiting yourself to one weapon will be a hinderance in.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Funguwari
Nice post, nice post. Not to mention that at his Lv's at what he's facing the 1-H axe's WSs are better because he should be vrs'ing Clippers and Swords have Red Lotus, which is Fire, and Clippers are Water, so, go figure. And if you reply I use it for skillchains... well... creating Fusion or, Liqueification of Clippers isn't gonna fix your downtime problem... Raging Axe is a good WS at that Lv.

But a 50 damage Red Lotus Blade is a lot better thena 150 damage Raging Axe, what you talkin' 'bout?