War/Nin

[tomiko]

Like I mentioned, War/Nin pre-74 is NOT that good of a tank without help. You must be able to recast blink anytime.
The only way i can recast blink1 every 30 sec during the heat of battle is with a brd's carnage elegy and a rdm/whm slow. This will slow the mob almost 50% from what i've seen! I'm lucky since i static with a brd/whm and a rng/nin. The rng can easily take the heat with blink as well, until i recast and grab aggro back. If the mob's slapped with a paralyze/blind as well, I've sometimes parried/dodged enough hits to have my blink recast ready with shadows left from the 1st cast.

[Funguwari]

I stopped Lv'ing my NIN sub the other day, now I'm Lv'ing MNK.

Why?

NIN: 6 hits dodged, and then, I get hit for 90+...
Also, I did Dual-Weild axes... but, Dual-Weild axe = a Great Axe w/"bad" weapon skills... at least the ones I have now... struggling to find a chain in certain PTs, and the axe weapons skills are rather weak until you get Rampage which, I'm not high enough to obtain... once you get Rampage, maybe, maybe it will be a viable damage dealer/back-up (possibly main) tank. But, I do not see this as a tanking sub until Utsusemi: Ni, and even then, NINs will do better because of their parry and dodge... PLDs... never stack up to them tank wise in a EXP PT. Not to mention it's expensive, which you don't need... 350,000g Sniper's Rings and other equips are expensive enough... not to mention the range of weapons we need to buy, and occassionally other rings, etc. for tanking. I never dodge anything so those 6 blinks get ripped quick... and long recast and not being able to put it back up unless I'm extremely lucky... was a turn off. Also, to add about the Rampage damage dealing, I hear, not experienced, but, heard that Rampage didn't chain well... so... if it dosen't chain well, you don't really use it much.

MNK: Haven't tried it to a big extent but, the extra VIT and HP, I think a Great Axe on this puppy will deal damage, about 1-H axes, I don't think a WAR holding one, 1-H axe will alot to much, and I heard Rampage didn't chain well, so, maybe you would only use a Great axe on him, and possibly NIN if Rampage chained well and was used in battle. The axe and sheild would be great for tanking though. Dodge, and Boost are great for tank, Focus great for DD (we do substantial damage, if only I hit more, I might be able to take down my static DRK friend I PT w/.)

Question: MNK w/a Axe and Shield good for DD? (pre- and after Rampage) if so, and Rampage is used much, do I sub THF and use a Sheild and Axe? (if the PT perfers axe to great axe)

[DerekKnight]

Originally posted by Funguwari

#2... Have you played WAR? I didn't even look at your profile, my eyes were strayed to the above comment. WARs tend to miss... why be a STR whore? So you can hit for 150 instead of 120 and then miss 4 times, then, hit 150 agian? I rather have a steady 120 instead of praying to God that a Double Attack and all my hits land, if they do... and God helps... then yes, all out STR is better... but, for those who live in the real world... and for those who know that praying to God will magically boost your Accuracy we know that WARs need DEX. DEX useless for WAR? No. . . . on the other hand... DEX's accuracy bonus is garbage compared to Accuracy. In my opinion: Accuracy then DEX (because I rather have some Accuracy than none... [plus, criticals appear more often and do more which is nice]) then: STR...

WARs get a natural accuracy boost in Aggressor. Plus, we whip out Shield Break. That's plenty right there. Not to mention equipment from 60+ have tons of accuracy included to help (NOT talking rings either). That's plenty of accuracy right there for a WAR (imho). If you choose to rock the STR rings, you're more than welcome. So, you know, I can hit for 150 consistantly ANYWAYS, instead of that 120. =P Aggressor and Shield Break are wonderful things.

[tomiko]

Use /mnk for tanking with counter/boost, use /thf for dmg dealing and bit of hate control@60, use /nin for fuidama partner for thf/drk/thf and back up tank/DD. Axe or Great Axe can be used with any of these jobs and do good damage. With blink buy lots of time for thf to set up fui on MT, and the thf can fui/WS on you anytime with blink shield, unlike rng or drk who cant take the heat. A note with dual wield: it will give u a chance for an extra hit on WS... you'll see this with 12%+ TP return, even with WS TP nerf. And dont forget the 15% haste.

Rampage closes Distortion = same as thf Viper Bite, Dancing Edge.
With /nin this WS has the potential to do most dmg with extra hits. (from dbl attack and dual wield) I almost always get 6+hits ~300-500 for me. I go +str with dual axe because it helps a lot with dmg on def penalty with 1h weapons...and also i have lesser miss rate with +10 acc Viking Axe, Aggressor, and faster hit rate. LOTS of hate. Oh, yeah... you'll LOVE Aggressor at lvl 45. I'm so happy noone gets this with a sub'ed war.

With a Great Axe, better go out all acc. Whiffing 3 hits with this baby HURTS. Post 60 Raging Rush is a WS that starts or ends Fragmentation. Un-sneaked, this WS does about the same as Rampage, and usually misses a hit -_-. /sam or /thf performs better now. I prefer /thf because of the WS TP nerf... and shield break gets resisted a lot. (only when not tanking of course) This will get your RR into the 600's.

/nin comes back into play with the lvl66 Axe WS Mistral Axe which owns G Axe's Full Break...I'm just 2 lvls away from this!...60k exp yay omg -_-.

A note on rng hitting with melee. Bow's have incredibly long delay, so every few hits now and then with a dagger is nice for TP. Plus one of the best endgame melee weapons for rng is a 44 dmg axe, they hit decently with that thing... all that dmg adds up. Yes, rng acc is paramount and no rng should go for dex or acc in giving up ranged acc.

[Sasarai]

I dunno fungiwari, Dex doesn't seem to be that important for warriors when accuracy is what you're actually talking about, dex does less for accuracy and is more for critical hits, which is the speciality of a thief. I'd rather increase STR.

[Bigokk McGock]

I see a lot of misconceptions in this thread from pre-50 Warriors or those that have never tried /NIN who are putting "this is what I heard..." or "I think this wouldn't work" as their opinion.

Please do not pass judgement on /NIN until you have explored it yourself.

I. /NIN vs /MNK

At 50 with /NIN you get the second dual wield bonus (15% weapon delay reduction) which passes every single great axe available in damage/delay ratio if you use dual Viking Axes...even dual Combat Caster's Axe +2 (level 43) outperforms Gigant Axe at level 50.

AT LEVEL 50 YOU WILL DEAL MORE DAMAGE AND CREATE MORE HATE DUAL WIELDING THAN /MNK WITH A GREAT AXE.

I have /MNK and /NIN properly leveled. I have tested both.
You will take less damage with /MNK, BUT you will deal more damage as a /NIN dual wielding, therefore killing the monsters faster for better chaining.

If you miss 3 times in a row with Great Axe, that's about a good 20+ seconds with dealing no damage (even with haste). If I miss 3 times in a row with dual axes, that's only about 10 seconds. Plus, more swings = more hate, regardless if you hit or not.

The problem with dual weapons is that once you get to a certain point, certain monster VIT/DEF is so high that it shaves damage right off the top, so you will want to use the highest damage weapons you can find instead of sticking with a weapon for it's stat bonus...to a certain extent. (That doesn't mean if another weapon is one or 2 more damage with the same delay you should use it right away, but when you start seeing decreased effectiveness from your stat weapons, then it is time to upgrade)

/cry I'm outgrowing my beloved Viking Axe
I knew the day would come, but it saddens me.

II. Rampage

AT 55: Best Rampage WS damage vs tough monster: 795
vs. IT: 605

Rampage finishes the best (IMO) level 2 skillchain in the game, Distortion. You need either a RNG/DRK/DRG/SAM to start it, which I don't think is too unreasonable...

III. GEAR
Every good Warrior has 2 sets of gear.

Important accessories for each at level 50:

1. Attack focused
Sniper Rings or Str/Dex rings
Valkyrie's Mask
Beetle Earrings +1 (Spike Earrings at 55)
Leaping Boots (AF boots at 52)


2. Defense focused
Phalanx Rings
Iron Musketeer Helmet (I recommend this over Eamperor Hairpin for Warrior)
Evasion Earrings (or Wrestler's Earrings: +60HP with /MNK)
Royal Knight Boots/Mithril Boots (AF boots at 52)

Warrior is my favorite job in FFXI and I've played 4 other jobs 30-40 before choosing WAR. I only have /MNK and /NIN properly leveled up at the moment, but when I hit 60, SAM is going to be leveled up also for me to test out. (I don't like THF at all...not even with others playing them as main ;p)

[lun4tic]

You don't even mention Utsusemi which is the only reason people want War/Nins in their parties.

If you could, please tell us how subbing Ninja affects Utsu and the Ninjutsu skill. I'm curious as to how well it works if it's affected by the skill and you start subbing ninja at level 30. You'd have a very low ninjutsu skill, and you'd think Utsu would suck.

[Bigokk McGock]

Why mention Utsusemi pre 74 War?

IMO, the reason we are invited is because we do great damage AND can tank if needed...You have been misinformed on the reasons warriors are good with /nin subjob which I explained above.

You will use it once before the monster is pulled and once after you get hit the second time (on non-monk monsters). This will absorb the first 6 hits and give you a good headstart on hate.

It cannot "suck", even with 0 skill it has the same effect as 100 skill.

Utsusemi: Ichi itself is great for pulling, great for maintaining hate initially but you do not recast it during the fight after the first 6 hits have been absorbed (unless Ancient Magic is being cast).

[lun4tic]

Why mention anything post 70? Few have the patience to deal with the long parties, steep EXP slopes, and crap they have to go through. Most of the people on these forums wont get past 50 because of the outraegous equipment prices and horrible genkai quests.

Nobody needs a War/Nin if you've got a summoner who knows how to use Garuda right. Even with Garuda you'd need good defense between casts. /Nin offers little defense or health bonuses and no active abilities worth anything.

Edited my post for clarification as you replied. =/

[Bigokk McGock]

I can outdamage every other melee except RNG and well equipped DRKs...I have outdamaged many ill equipped DRKs.

How is Warrior not wanted again?

Once you get out of the 30's you'll understand^^

[tomiko]

Ninjitsu skill does not affect Utsusemi at all. Utsusemi:Ichi gives us 3 shadows with sub as does nin main. However, Utsusemi:Ni gives us only 3 shadows as opposed to 4 shadows with nin main.
I'm certain my ninjitsu debuffs will always get resisted being 1/2 lvl, however. Tonko (invisible) is the other useful spell with /nin.

Bigokk, there are many ways to recast blink1 during battle:
Keep in mind that the spell will still cast if you are hit before 20% of cast time and 80% after. A war/nin tank has to cast as much as possible.
#1: bard slow and rdm/whm slow, I mentioned this already.
If you dont have this luxury:
#2: watch for the mob casting buffs and non physical dmg abilities (like AE lower attack), and also magic. If u cast right when it casts, the spell will most likely go off.
#3: If you lose aggro and dont have voke ready, cast blink. This will often be enough to have the mob turn back on you.

If u can suck in that spider's sickle slash, the whm will be very happy with you. :sweat:

[Ozymandis]

One small point- Wrestler's Earring is rare, right? So you can only get one, for +30 HP. I think I'm going to get one of these, and sell one of my AGI+3 earrings.

Nobody needs a War/Nin if you've got a summoner who knows how to use Garuda right.

I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've partied with a summoner. Not ONCE with a summoner that had Garuda. That's a non-factor.

[Bigokk McGock]

Ozy, you're right, my mistake.

Tomiko. Yes, I know those things, but I don't think we were going into advanced Utsusemi tactics? At 37, I don't think he's going to encounter many sickle slashes ^^

Edit: I think he is trying to convince the rest of us that /nin sucks and we shouldn't use it...no real use in explaining when some one has that additude IMO.

One thing that really bugs me is that Petrify effects ignore Utsisemi...this made very sad galka ; ; (until I learned to turn around so I don't get hit by it ^^)

[tomiko]

Garuda cant be cast every 30sec, and costs lots of MP.
Lunatic, u might as well quit if thats what your expectations are.
lvl 50's are tough yes.. with genkai, AF coffers, and xp jumps.
But theres lots to do after that. Avatar battles, Missions, HNM hunts, new areas to visit, Ballista etc. All the more fun with a large, friendly LS. (I'm DragonAsh's Leader)

Edit: Aye i'd thot u'd know all about tanking with blink1. I need to try out that petrify trick sometime! Also don't chuck that Viking axe just yet! I'm still using the darn thing at lvl 64 lol. I rather take a small dmg hit than the -20def hit from sniper's. 44 dmg Darksteel Pick+1 in my main hand tho... BIG return's on Rampage.

[lun4tic]

Originally posted by Bigokk McGock

Edit: I think he is trying to convince the rest of us that /nin sucks and we shouldn't use it...no real use in explaining when some one has that additude IMO.

You only see it like that because you think /nin is the best sub. I originally started this as a rant, and an informative post as to what to expect. Then you post with your /nin elitism.

Obviously you don't understand what I was talking about with Garuda. With a War/Mnk they can take hits, and with Garuda you'll have uninteruppted blink. Even between casts you wont take much damage because of Dodge/Defender.

If I were to have a War/Nin tank without Utsu the white mage would have to work overtime and would drag the hate to itself trying to keep the /nin alive. I've SEEN it. In Valkurm we had a Nin/War in the party who used Utsu (I was Sam/War). I'd Provoke/Third Eye off him while he'd recast and we'd take minimal damage. Utsusemi makes partying EASY even before 74. When I make posts I keep in mind that not everybody has spent the last couple years of his life obtaining level 75.

And I do plan to quit at 50 or before. I don't have the amount of time neccessary to do all these undoubtedly fun things(no sarcasm).