War/Nin

[lun4tic]

Don't try it if you don't know what you're doing. You think it would be a great tank, but unless you're well off and know how to play it then stop.

First, you need Utsusemi. It's not that hard to get and if you don't have it you're the most useless warrior ever. Trade in about 25 sets of zinc ore(100 total) to the quest NPC in Bastok. Then head on over to http://www.zebraflood.com/ninja/ninjutsu.html and check out how to get it.

Second, dual wield axes. So many warriors decide to dual wield swords and do little damage. You don't even need to dual wield axes, keeping a great axe is still fine.

Third, keeping hate with a ninja sub is harder then with a monk sub. I have so many abilities at my disposal to keep hate, but ninja subs pretty much only have provoke. I find myself stealing hate from the resident War/Nin in Garlaige constantly.

Fourth, tools cost money. Utsu tools go for around 7k a stack(99) on Seraph. Without the tools you can't use the ninjutsu and you're more useless then a taru monk.

I've seen too many War/Nins that don't use tools, or don't expect to tank and just get in the way as a useless part of the party. You could replace a war/nin w/o Utsu with any other class and have better exp income.

[Ozymandis]

I dual-wield axes. But another WAR/NIN I party with has a sword in his off-hand. The bonuses on some 1h swords are very useful. At certain points 1h swords offer more than 1h axes.

I don't think that you can make that blanket statement.


I agree with the rest of your post, though. It's not a cheap combo, you still use tools. From 45 to 47 I went through a stack, for instance. But (at least on Fairy) WAR/NINs aren't guilty of not having Utsusemi/not using it. Most of us are players who see the promise of this combo and are planning to take our characters all the way to 75

...or don't expect to tank and just get in the way as a useless part of the party.

WAR/NIN can be an effective damage dealer as well. I have my MNK sub levelled, but I really think /NIN is decent for damage. When you add the damage from the dual axes and account for the delay bonus it's sometimes greater than what you get with a Great Axe. Also, 2 times stat bonuses

Plus I can go all-out offensive, get aggro, and it's not that big of a deal, because I keep Utsusemi up at all times.

[lun4tic]

Why would you sacrifice the Vit and HP bonuses of monk, for agi and dual wielding bonuses for ninja? Unless you're tanking with Utsusemi that agility is useless.

And I admit, swords have some nice stat bonuses, but at level 34 this ninja was using hunter swords. I would have still been using centurion swords at that point. The +6 acc and +6 atk out does the bit more dmg the hunter swords have.

[Dragon Ghost]

Yeah,I know alot of WAR/NIN's who keep shield skill up. One friend of mine is a pure +STR whore. Aleyknoues Bracelets+11 STR,Ruby Rings +4 STR (each) Has 100 STR now. Does DEX really matter that much for a WAR tank or should they focus on AGI,DEX?

[Ozymandis]

Originally posted by lun4tic
Why would you sacrifice the Vit and HP bonuses of monk, for agi and dual wielding bonuses for ninja? Unless you're tanking with Utsusemi that agility is useless.

And I admit, swords have some nice stat bonuses, but at level 34 this ninja was using hunter swords. I would have still been using centurion swords at that point. The +6 acc and +6 atk out does the bit more dmg the hunter swords have.

I agree that the AGI is not that crucial, but the VIT difference is only like 1-2 points at my level. Neither stat is that useful in an ideal meleeing situation (tank always holds aggro).

Monk sub does give Dodge/Focus. How effective are these? I dunno, haven't subbed monk in 17 levels.

Dual wield is the difference. I'm getting DEX+2 STR+2 and ATK+5. In one level, ACC+20. Damage and delay on-par with great axe. At some points, Great Axe is clearly better, and at those points I would be better off subbing monk or more ideally thief. But it's easier to keep Axe skill capped with 2 of them. Chalk it down to laziness :p

Also, I pull aggro off of the tank a lot when I go full-offense. Utsusemi gives him time to pull it off of me without getting me killed.

[tomiko]

Dont tell me war/nin can't tank.

Granted there are some conditions that i need to be able to recast blink1 anytime i want. Brd Carnage Elegy + Rdm/Whm Paralyze Slow and Haste. (i basically static with both ^^) Most XP mobs are not Mnk type, and these debuffs make the mobs swing as slow as Great Axe.

With me as MT my PT was absolutely destroying Torama, and i was holding hate against a drk/sam and rng/nin (our hate suit really helps, and Rampage for 300-600 =). Now Onzozo was quite crowded, and toramas lifespans became like a second -_-... we decided to start taking on Labyrinth Manticores lol. These nasties have scary single hit killers and mad life, but they hit slow as hell. Me and the Rng bounced aggro without taking a single hit.

Just a rant about my 1st time tanking in a while since i usually PT with a pld :spin:

[lun4tic]

I wouldn't want a War/Nin tanking if he didn't have Utsusemi. War/Mnk would blow him away with Defender + Dodge. Subbing monk also gives you boost which is GREAT for weapon skills and keeping hate.

I can use Armor Break on a IT monster for around 50 damage without defender or berserk. If I boost before it I can get as high as 80 damage. It also raises Sturmwind damage around 25-40 damage. That right there makes warriors a good tank and damage dealer and better then War/Nin.

[Hisdon]

personally the thing I like about the WAR/NIN combo...lvl 50

Tactician Magician's Espadon +12 attack
Valkarie's Axe +10 accuracy
full IM armor
+2 STR Rings with Sniper's and Phalax Rings as my other rings
Life Belt
+attack earrings, and some of those nice +hate earrings
my Wolf Mantle +1

I dunno...I really like the idea of it, but I wouldn't want to blink tank...however this gives a very flexible way to play and looks quiet fun

[kowboy]

Originally posted by Dragon Ghost
Yeah,I know alot of WAR/NIN's who keep shield skill up. One friend of mine is a pure +STR whore. Aleyknoues Bracelets+11 STR,Ruby Rings +4 STR (each) Has 100 STR now. Does DEX really matter that much for a WAR tank or should they focus on AGI,DEX?

IMO, WAR tanks should worry about DEF, VIT and maybe some EVA. DEX and AGI are pure THF/RNG stats and really are of no importance to WARs. I see alot of fighters who go half and half on STR and DEX, but I think fighters should just go straight out STR whore. Some of my gear offer DEX+ but its not what I look for when I go shopping (WAR and MNK equips). If you want to improve accuracy, go for ACC+ gears.

I sub THF personally when I'm with my set PT, because I only tank until our THF fuidamas on the PLD. Any other occasions, such as BCNM40, I sub MNK. My NIN is only 20, and although I have utsusemi, I have would much rather spend 4-5k on food than on shihei. Leveling NIN to keep it up to date will cost more money too. I never have aggro Vs black onion in BCNM40(damn RNG) so I dont worry about countering flood. The RNG uses utsusemi to absorb it, and if I have TP, I'll smash axe the onion to stop his casting.

But 74/37 WAR/NIN in full AF is awesome. I'll definitely level NIN some day if I ever reach that level, but for now, MNK and THF sub suit me fine.

[lun4tic]

Us Elvaans need Dex. I had to swap out a lot of +atk for +dex.

[Roarak]

The accuracy component to dex is harshly overrated as many ppl are starting to figure out. If you want accuracy, get + accuracy gear.

[Shann_Phoenix]

The main problem of cranking 1 attribute to the max is the diminushing return after a point.

A lvl 50 war/mnk could always stack aggressor and focus together, but most don't do it. Why because you barely miss with aggressor on so adding focus would have very little effect.

In xp groups, i think it's good to balance out str/dex, attack/accuracy simply because you're going to fight stuff that is 6-8 levels above you and thus pushing 1 attribute to the top won't help as much as having a balance of gear.

war/nin is ok tank below 74, because utsusemi long cast time and recast timer, 4sec cast time and 24 sec recast timer. So if you pay attention you will blink the 1st 6hits but it will be very hard to recast your blink and you will lose hate easily if you try to recast repeatatly.

For DW option, i use axe/sword combo myself, i can change main hand for ws choice, so more sc. Axes are better for raw dmg, but swords are good because they provide good stat bonuses, like the +12 att of the tactician magician espadon or the +att/acc of centurion sword and combat caster scimitar.

[DerekKnight]

WAR/NIN isn't really anything special until lvl 74 (you can be ok, but merely ok as a tank...and even I would just leave that up to PLD, NIN mains). 74/37 WAR/NIN is where they get Utsu: Ni, and become probably the best tank in the damn game (TOTALLY subjective of course, but I'm bias). dual Wield Axes, or whatever 1h weapons you want, or, just use the 2h axe (spamming the Utsus, it won't matter). If you're sick, a Kraken Club in the off hand, and the Juggernaut in the other (Dmg: 46 Dly: 288 HP: 18 STR: 3 AGI: -3 Attack: 30 Axe). WarCry, Aggressor, etc. Throw in some other Ninjitsu if you want. All you need. The Ultimate Blink Tank (no offense to any NINs, but a WAR/NIN will beat ya in terms of dmg).

Anyways, 74 WAR/NIN = Sick puppy. Sick dmg, sick equipment, sick potential. There's a reason there's tons of them on my server. Hopefully, I'll join the ranks sooner or later.

[specular]

I've been practising with the combo for awhile and there are certain mobs that will take down blink in a matter of seconds. It made me go : "What.. it's already gone?" a few times. Faster than you may recast, too.

On the other hand I can cast Utsu against most mobs without being interrupted now. Just learn the mobs, it's a game in itself. So against most mobs, interruption is not a huge issue once you learn (having trained a mage class will greatly help you in your timing).

Overall, if you need to tank and are not too sure what you are capable of ... I'd sub Monk before magic 74. You simply have more stuff to /toss at the mob and a very decent HP increase. But it doesn't hurt to play withe combo and I think it is very fun.

[Tomatoes]

Blink-tanking seems better when there are two people in the party doing it. One blinks while other recasts. And switch off.