Tanking...

[Funguwari]

It's post-30, and it seems like I'm being hit hard, I'm subbing NIN, but, 6 hits (initail cast, plus, when the two Blinks run dry and I recast and get Blink back up) dodged. . . . and then, I get hit hard. I use Defender, but, the hate holding ability gets smacked. I use a Great Axe, I do not have Berserk, and I'm eating Fish Mithkabobs. My hate holding abilities seem "lacking"... I loose aggro sometimes which I think is normal, but, the way I think... it's unaccpetable, I use Warcry too at the start of a battle to make that thing stick to me, I have up-to-date armor, but, still I have trouble, I want to know this:

1. How can I better my hate-keeping ability?
2. How can I stop being hit for soooo much damage?

I feel like I'm doing the best I can. I do have a Lv'ed sub and I'm 45 currently. (Whenever I try to update my profile it takes 5+ mins... so, I didn't bother.)

I wanna get this mob to stick to me like glue, and I don't wanna take much damage either. Blink is nice, but, when it wears down, I start taking damage, 6 Blinks is good, but, I need a way for that when it dies down I don't take much damage, 1 cast... by the time the puller comes back, I can cast agian, I get hit twice, cast agian, and during the cast I get hit, but, since I cast when I have one left I don't get interrupted, and then my other Blink comes on. Then, I try to recast after those 3 are gone, but, I got around 10+ secs before I can cast agian... and after that, if I'm lucky... I'll get interrupted, and interrupted, and interrupted... then, I get lucky and it comes back up.

Thanks for your input.

[Funguwari]

Oh, and I 'Voke every 30 secs too, etc.

[neighbortaru]

ah, welcome to the world of mid-warrior crisis

Since you sub NIN, make ample use of your other ninjutsu and stars (this will cost a pretty penny btw).

imac2much posted a nice thread on spike hate in the PLD forums. Basically, the idea is that you don't want to provoke every 30s but provoke when you need to. I'm probably butchering his words, so go read it yourself. It was enlightening but I never got to try it as I stopped lvl my war (well, my entire char actually).

As for the damage bit, I can't really help here. You will get smacked for a lot. Up DEF and up VIT will help (which is why I chose /mnk), but you will get smacked for a lot. If it really bothers you that much, pick the shield back up.

[Funguwari]

My main is WAR, so I cannot use Shirukien (spelling?).

Taking damage can't be prevented, even w/Defender or, food, it still gets a bit rough when Ninjutsu falls.

Why wouldn't you want to 'Voke every 30 seconds? Hate stacks, so, 'Voking every 30 seconds should keep it on you. Unless I am wrong.

I do use my Ninjutsu whenever I get a chance, but, as you can see from my post, there is a re-cast timer, and I'm unable to keep it on after my 2nd cast (the cast when you're hit twice almost a third.)

[Taurius]

At your lvl and sub, you should be mainly back up tank. A PLD is a better tank from lvl 40-74. Only with NIN 37 sub with Utsusemi: Ni can you be a better tank than PLD. But if you are the main tank, have a backup tanker who can provoke off you so you can recast Utsusemi: Ichi. I did that while in a PT with a main tank of NIN/WAR. When he got hit after Ichi wore off, I'll provoke, he recasts, he Provokes off me and back and forth. Did this for several hours. The WHM did hardly any work. Chain a constant 5.

As for getting hit so hard....nothing but you can do about that unless you want to sacrifice DEX/ACC gear. Subbing NIN is the best way to go for a tanking WAR. Just need a well run PT with a backup tanker.

[Rico]

Yes... it's kinda hard for us "Warriors to tank" well for me it was.. I always made my pt's and I either had a pld and I was the damage dealer or I had a nin with a thf in the pt. I rarely tanked if they told me to and when I did things like that happened to me, sure I never used nin in the 40-50 area's so I don't know how it is but it's hard from what i hear =/.

When tanking - VIT(def) AGI(eva) gear

When attacking - DEX(acc) STR(atk) gear

Hope this helps.

[Nameless]

I had fun tanking tonight

While I am much lower than you(18), the concept is the same, no?

Ok, before hand this was my pt: RNG,NIN,WAR,WHM,BLM,RDM

I never lost hate. We were fighting worms in korrokola from 16-18. I would use meat mithkabobs, use berserk, then run in attack and provoke, then I would cast boost. I would cast boost every 15 seconds (I'm sure it cause some kind of hate, and doing 50 damage a hit instead of 30 every 15 seconds is nice). I would always provoke and I tanked far more than the NIN and did more damage . I think the reason I could keep hate though, was because of my damage, I outdid everyone else in my group (excluding the RNG and BLM) but I made up for those with provoke and boost which adds slight hate I believe. I too was using a great axe because my axe is.. >_> about 25 points too low. But, I would say try using /MNK and a shield/axe so you can block some of that damage that hurts so much. Or get a PLD or a better WHM so you don't have to worry about dying.

Oh and I forgot to say, I wasn't in the renkei so I would just throw off my WS whenever I wanted more help with hate, I'm sure that helped.

[Bigokk McGock]

I noticed in your allah's profile that you have 35 VITALITY...

That's your problem, you're Hume

[Sasarai]

Leveled thief sub is not a tanker.

utsusemi Ichi alone is not helping you enough?

consider being a MONK subjob.

I know some people on the board would go plug war/mnk into the stat calculator, but in all seriousness you are gimping yourself if you don't do it for yourself.

Boost, dodge, counter attack, and more HP, if you find yourself getting hit, thief won't help you (as much as I can notice) and neither will nin.

I'm tarutaru so my subjob makes more of an effect since I don't have the hit points to rely on in case I make a poor selection.

[neighbortaru]

oops right, you're WAR. no stars :sweat: But your other ninjutsu should generate a buncha hate too. kurayami (blind) is very useful.

read imac's post. there's a theory about something called spike hate. Sure hate stacks, but it also goes away as the mob pummels (does damage) to you. The idea of spike hate is that as the mob is starting to loose interest in you (it's doing enough damage to you) you give it a quick kick in the balls (provoke) to get it's attention back. again, read his post, he gives a much better explaination of it.

auch;; i forgot to mention yesterday that one of the best ways for WAR to keep hate is with a THF partner SA'nTA-ing on to you.

oh and the backup tank is a very good suggestion for helping you recast utsusemi. Saw that in action in a party with a taru NIN/WAR and PAL. Worked wonderfully.

[Funguwari]

"Gah... you guys didn't even read my post! I told you... MY SUB ISN'T under-Lv'ed... I never updated my profile... THF isn't even my sub! And that is even Lv'ed! I'm not waiting 5 mins to get to the "user CP" to update my profile, so, please, read my post before you answer."

...

Well...

it seems I actually did not include the sub, and it's Lv'ed in my original post, sorry, anyway, now you know.

[Karinya]

First, subbed utsusemi isn't very good. It cancels fewer hits, but more importantly, even a NIN with Utsusemi:Ni still needs to evade and parry a lot of hits to make it work effectively, a WAR main doesn't have the evasion, parry and AGI to pull that off. Add in the fact that you only have utsusemi:ichi and you will see that WARs below level 74 are not good blink tanks.

What a WAR does have for tanking that NIN doesn't is a shield - except that you don't. Great axe is a damage dealing weapon, not a tanking weapon. Get an axe and shield for tanking, and (if you're subbing NIN anyway) you might as well carry a second axe so you can dual wield axes for damage dealing, if you aren't using breaks.

Another possibility is to sub MNK for more hp, vit and counter (which doesn't run out like utsusemi).

It seems to me that your main problem is that you're trying to tank with a damage dealing build - str/atk foods, great axe, you don't mention what stat rings you're wearing but probably str or dex. (God help you if you're trying to tank with snipers. ) And not using defender, etc.

[tomiko]

From another post of mine:

Tanking as war/nin can be tricky. You'll want to cast blink as often as possible, as it creates hate and doesnt erase hate when u absorb hits. You can always absorb the 1st 6 hits of a mob, but after that it is hard to recast without being interrupted because of the 4sec cast time. Have your mages blind/paralyze/slow the mob! If you are getting too hurt, have someone voke it off for recast. On certain mobs I am able recast easily, such as crabs and beetles. The trick to recast as often as possible is try to cast such that the mob hits u b4 20% or after 80% of cast time. Basically cast as the mob motions to hit you. Also watch for mob buffing its self or casting magic, u will have time to cast during this. Blm stun will also help to get the cast off. When bards use their slow song, Carnage Elegy, I can recast blink whenever, sometimes even dodge enough so i can recast over blink1 with the same 30sec delay! Using these methods i've absorbed tons of dmg, screwdrivers, sickle slash etc. @_@;

I've also found that dual axes will get me much more hate than great axe when tanking. This is because they miss less often per time interval. At your level i recommend dual Combat Casters Axe (or your AF1). I noticed a large drop in my tanking ability at level 50, when pld get defender, and mobs hitting ever harder. War is more suited to damage dealer/backup tank/fuidama partner at these later levels. However, war gets the most emnity on their AF, and this helps so much when tanking.
.
I dunno, at your lvl(40) i was a mad tank.. ate meat mithkabobs only and had high dmg parties. Mobs sometimes died without me even running out on 6 blinked hits. (then again i may be spoiled with a brd and rng static)

[Roarak]

I think up to at least 50-55 that /mnk is by far the better sub for a tanking war. Boost, counter and ~100 more hp's are really nice.

Im just now lvling nin up, and with just Utsusemi Ichi its pretty darn hard to blink much per fight unless you have a backup to let you reapply.

At 50 you nin sub will give you a DW increase for more dps, so i think thats when the tables may turn. And as long as your gear is up to date you shouldnt be getting beat up too bad.

Dont try to blink tank like a nin/war with war/nin. Use blink to offset the first 6 hits and go from there.

[Carbon]

First, subbed utsusemi isn't very good. It cancels fewer hits, but more importantly

Seems just as good as Utsusemi with a ninja main from what I've seen. Allows you to cancel the first 6 hits (initial cast before fight, second cast at third shadow of first cast) - same as a ninja.

a WAR main doesn't have the evasion, parry and AGI to pull that off.

Evasion/parry isn't enough for NIN/WAR or WAR/NIN to exclusively play blinktank before they get Utsusemi: Ni.

Having played both, evasion is very unreliable. If you don't have U: Ni, you should assume the worst and assume that once your second cast's shadows run out, you are going to get hit (thus interrupting your subsequent casting attempts).