War > Pld,Drg,Drk

[Meimei]

This is for those of you idiots who think warriors do avarage dmg. This is a good post with 107 replies and they even got screen shot.

http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=897

[fuz]

There already was a long discussion here about that screenshot as well. With no extra screens as to levels, equips, subjobs and race, and more than 4 numbers to look at, it is hardly indicitive of proof that wars do more, less, or the same damage than drks.

Second, you seem to think average damage is somehow bad. I never said *how* bad, I just said less than drk. :p It is a small gap in the game, but it is there. In my experience, with similar equips at lvl 60, the gap is maybe 10%. Drk gets souleater, war gets agressor, and maybe focus. Stays about the same at 10%. If you want to see a real gap, look at war vs. monk at 60 with decent equips at that level.

And don't say that the enimity on sam af is there for them to tank, because... well they do a very poor job at it. Enmity+ imo is there to increase the agro control abilities of that class because they need the extra boost to make up for something else. It can be used to tank directly, or just sub thf to pile on even more hate on the tank than you can without the enimity+ equips. Drg can do this, it's just that they're not very good at it since thf sub is very particular about weapon skills to be used effectively.

Rng is not really melee, nor is it used like one. Rng is geared as a replacement for blm.

[Ainmer]

At level 59 against VT NPCs, my War/Mnk was parsing as equivalent to my brother's Drk/War. At level 61 my brother's Drk/War is parsing out ahead of my War/Sam, but not by much, say 10%. A lot of that has to do with aggro issues, however. -_-

[Crug]

ya know i was reading over this thread and one thing sprung to mind.

we are all parts of a whole here with out the other parts one is useless and inefective. the only job in this game that can even think about going it alone is bst. and even they need help sometimes.

but i have a fealing that my words will fall on def ears.

[Bigokk McGock]

It's fun when people think WAR's suck because we join the group and put the DRKs to shame (at least that was my experience pre-50, we will see once I hit 55+ and have to compete Rampage vs.Gillo)

I never have a problem finding groups, I get tells from people I grouped with in the past just to ask if there's a chance I need a group, heh.

[PhoR]

uhm.. is it just me? or is everyone forgetting that drk can use g.axe as well...
according to http://www.ausystem.org/%7Eaushacho/...f/skill-e.html drk is B+ with g.axe, so the skill cap isn't too low. in fact it's higher than a pld using a g.swd (which i see plenty of)
if you like g.axe so much, as well as liking g.axe weapon skills so much, why not use it as drk, and still have access to all of the dark magic (which isn't even close to being useless as some 'warrior fanatics' seem to be implying)

most of you are posting things such as "berserk and warcry give a much better attack boost than last resort"
sure, that may be true, but where's the war's enfeebling magic.
(the correct answer is: they don't have any)

Sure you can compare dmg parses, but does your parse include the dmg that the drk did with drain? or can a war stun an enemy ws or spell cast?
Your damage parse comparison is "mathemagic" at best, and totally lopsided.

[Ariesknight]

Most WARs sub NIn from 30 onwards once they have Gil farming under control. Our enfeebling Ninjitsu makes up for having no annoying, troublesome, MP. So there is a WAR's enfeebling.

[Emrys]

Originally posted by Ariesknight
Most WARs sub NIn from 30 onwards once they have Gil farming under control. Our enfeebling Ninjitsu makes up for having no annoying, troublesome, MP. So there is a WAR's enfeebling.

Mages/DRKs with max enfeebles still get resisted. I don't think a WAR with half ninjutsu skill using Ichi's will land.

[Ariesknight]

Most WARs use NIN for Utsusemi and the other ninjitsu you might as well try,huh?

[DrSerpico]

Hrr hrr hrr

WAR is a great job, plus, subbers of the WAR get abilities basically nerfed. I haven't yet seen a DRK/WAR pull off the amount of Double Attacks a WAR does. And I admit, when the DRK does it, it's devistating, but, that is at a different Lv.

No mentioning of subbers of sam, nin, mnk getting the abilities nerfed. Looking from only one side, eh? ^^

War is a good job. It fits in some parties, it may not be the best choice for others.

[Bigokk McGock]

I can only speak of WAR below 60, as I am only 57, but this is my first hand experience.

Any good Warrior will have multiple sets of armor and multiple subjobs, one for tanking and one for damage dealing, but in this case we are talking about damage dealing.

When compairing damage dealing, you should consider the most damage output combination for Warrior (pre-60), which is /NIN.


Aggressor

DRK does not get Aggressor, Argonis mentioned that DRK/WAR get all of their key abilities. Aggressor enables us to wear more +ATK gear (Swordbelt+1) than +ACC gear (Lifebelt). This boost gets us on about equal ground in terms of +ATK. I have not done the parsing yet, but Sashari (Enhanced Dual Wield with /NIN) gives another 5% haste. I haven't tested if the 12 ATK ups the damage output more than another 5% haste would, but I tend to believe 5% reduced delay > 12 ATK. Speed Belt is only 1% more and sells for over 1mil for a reason.

Attack: DRK (very close but DRK wins by a small number of points, less than 10 with the aforementioned +ATK setup )

Accuracy: Tie



Dual Wield

At 50, a /NIN gets an innate 15% delay reduction. Using a Viking Axe (for +10 ACC) main hand and at 55 Bloodsword can be used in the off-hand.

The delay reduction factor alone pushes WAR ahead in DPS, including WS (Rampage and Guillotine are pretty equal). Again, with the +ATK gear to make up for the lower damage of Viking Axe added with Bloodsword makes a very potent damage combination.

DPS: WAR

Rampage finishes level 2 Distortion, need I say more? Yes? OK.

Level 3:
Light(light/fire/wind/lightning)
Darkness(dark/water/ice/earth)

A DRK can do both of the level 3 renkei effects listed above.

So can WAR...whats your point? Warrior can start and end TWICE AS MANY skillchains as a DRK can.

Using only 'A' weapons in renkei 1-3, a WAR can participate in 24 renkei and a DRK can participate in 12 (LOL) which is a laughable comparison.

Renkei: WAR

I’m curious to see at 60 when I can use /SAM if it will outperform /NIN. I’m sure you can SC more, which translates to more Raging Rush, but with the weak Great Axe choices, I’m wondering how the DPS compares to /NIN.

I will have to report back to this thread in a few levels when I hit 60 (after farming Haubergeon cash).

[JayblahX]

I really don't see how a double Axe WAR/NIN will outdamage a Great Axe WAR/THF at all.

Seems to me like you greatly overrate subbed-Dual Wield, Biggock. Yeah, Axe has more weaponskill flexibility, but honestly when people invite a Great Axe warrior, they are looking for only one thing: Shield Break.

Shield Break deals more damage than ANY weaponskill a WAR/NIN has. Baloney, you say? Ok; lets take a look at what Shield Break does; It lowers evade greatly. So how does this translate into a highly damaging weaponskill? Because Shield Break facilitates an increase in damage by every melee in your party. When Shield Break lands, the melee chatlog instantly changes from:

Before Shield Break: miss, hit, miss, hit, miss.
After Shield Break: hit, hit, hit, miss, hit (all of this damage is really Shield Break damage)

Add Sneak Attack (especially with Sturmwind), Double Attack (with a 2hander), and all of a Warriors sexy, sexy skills, and I fail to see how a WAR/NIN can beat a WAR/THF as Damage Dealer.

[Bigokk McGock]

Then you fail to see it. I'm not sure what else to tell you except that you're wrong...

After Shield Break: hit, hit, hit, miss, hit (all of this damage is really Shield Break damage)

That's what mine looks like without Sheild Break...sometimes in one round (the first 3 that is).

[JayblahX]

As cliched as it sounds; you didn't understand my Shield Break point.

It facilitates the damage of EVERY melee in your group, NOT just yours. I'm sure you land as many attacks as you do, but the other melees may not. With Shield Break, they do. Their new ability to land hits is Shield Break's damage.

Add Shield Break and the damage it facilitates for EVERY MELEE, Sneak Attack every minute, and the natural skills of the Warrior, and I still don't believe you. Oh well, maybe you're doing something I haven't seen other WAR/NINs do yet.

[PhoR]

Originally posted by Bigokk McGock

The delay reduction factor alone pushes WAR ahead in DPS,

two lower delay lower dmg weapons added together will not do the same amount of dps that a higher dmg weapon will do. Crits for the higher dmg weapon will add FAR more extra dmg than they will with the two low dmg weapons. That and the actual damage isn't linear. Two 20 dmg axes with 200 delay will not do the same amount of actual dmg as a 40 dmg weapon with 400 delay. High defense hurts the dps of the two lower delay weapons.
And your parses aren't accurate because they don't include the dmg that is done from drain, nor do they include the dmg that was prevented with stun.
you're still conviently leaving out all of the other things drk brings to a group. absorbs, stun, etc.. ..

that and you're giving the war/nin weapons that cost insane amounts of gil (bloodsword), and comparing them to giving the drk average gear.

I could prove to you that whm is a better tank than war by using your lopsided comparisons. (during the level range when a whm first gets holy plate armor and flash)

You're making it sound like war is a better class all around, and it's not at all in practice. So quit posting garbage just trying to make yourself look better for making the class choice you did.

They're both good classes. One player might be better at his respective class than another player, but that doesn't mean his class is better across the board.

by the way, nice warnings Bigokk... seems like I'm not the only one that thinks you're full of bs.
/note to self: don't read any of Bigokk's posts, they're just a flaming waste of time.