War > Pld,Drg,Drk

[Meimei]

Just reach lvl 63 this week, currently have sam sub, but working out on ninja sub. To me warrior are 9/10 on dealing dmg and 7/10 on defence. We do much better on dealing dmg then taking dmg. Comparing to a Dark Knight, warrior with berserk + aggressor do more dmg then a dark knight with berserk. But once the berserk and aggressor all wear out dark knight do more dmg then a warrior. Over all dark knight and warrior pretty much doing the same dmg. And remember, dark knight do dmg by the amount of dmg per hit, warrior do dmg by their good accuracy. On the weapon skill, Guillotine do 300-400 dmg and Raging rush do 250 - 350 dmg which is not much difference to me. Warrior and dark knight are best buddy. If you have pld,drk,war, this pt set up will be overkill and believe me they do.

btw i never have problem with shield break, 95% mob from lvl 14-60 i fought are weak against ice. lvl 60+ im doing what samurai are doing, doing 2x2 renkei with dark knight and pld.

And to me Rng > Mnk = Thf > Drk > War > Sam > Drg
Drgs are broken, they have problem on hitting monster and charge tp way too slow. And Penta Thrust is the Shit, doing 60-180ish dmg againt IT mob and so terrible on renkei. I feel the same experince with these guys.
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...threadid=36025

[Funguwari]

May I add something to this?

WAR can skillchain like no other class, especially WAR/SAM. Why you ask? A WAR can weild all weapons with a B+ to B- rating... A and A+ for axes... now, we also get all weapon skills.

So, if you have the cash to bring alot of weapons with you... you can skillchain, and will skillchain better than any other class being that if you have every weapon... well... no need to expliain, common sense.

As for damage dealing... WAR deals incredible damage at Lv70. (I have a 70 DRK friend, and a 70 WAR friend... they are friends and they PT together all the time, they're good friends.) Regulary without using abilities... and the WAR using a Great Axe... the WAR only does 20-30 less damage than the DRK, the DRK when Soul Eater is activated (he only uses it during quests because any DRK that uses Soul Eater during a battle... [in a EXP PT] will find that he has too much hate on him... and will die... if he uses it often at the wrong time... agian common sense, no need to explain.) The WAR/NIN and the DRK/THF (best combos for EXP PTing at their Lv, they both have the best equipment and subs Lv'ed to their max also, to note: both are using Mithcheifkabobs!) and that is the truth. Depending on what other classes are in the PT, the WAR uses a weapon that corrisponds to the PT's needs. Meaning: the DRK always uses his scythe, and the other melee's use their specialty weapons and they figure out what weapons and weapon skills create what chains... and then, the WAR brings the weapon that is best needed for the best possible chain with the other PT members... now, that is versatility... and that is what makes the WAR job so damn good! With all the speciality classes chaining with their weapons... you bring the weapon which will create the most devastating chain not only in Lv, but, to elements...

WAR/NIN... Blink. Tank. Think of it as a NIN on steriods. Tank better than a NIN because not only do you have incredible HP, VIT and armor (which the NIN lacks...) but, they got the spells (Ustsuemi: Ichi and Ni at 74...) that the NIN has... agian... a NIN on steriods... not only that, but, the NIN does less damage than the WAR.

WAR/SAM... reasons about chaining listed above, plus, you can get a debuff off real quick (Sheild Break, etc.), switch to the chain weapon, and go with that weapon for the rest of the battle, and then, when the monster dies, switch to your axe, meditate, go attack the next monster the puller brings, use your debuff, switch to chain weapon. [REPEAT!]

WAR is a great job, plus, subbers of the WAR get abilities basically nerfed. I haven't yet seen a DRK/WAR pull off the amount of Double Attacks a WAR does. And I admit, when the DRK does it, it's devistating, but, that is at a different Lv.

60+ WAR is one of the kings of dealing damage. Plus, they can bring weapons to help with the enemies weakness... (i.e., polearms suck agianst bones, so, if you Lv off them you wouldn't invite a DRG, but, scythes do good damage agianst bones... along with H2H, so, the WAR can sub MNK use H2H perfectly, or, switch to your scythe (the WAR switch to scythe) and use it just as well as a DRK and use WSs to chain, etc.

...

Either way, endless possibilities for a WAR in a PT, in damage dealing, or tanking... not saying WAR is a "end-all" class (believe me, I'm one of the one's who actually believe every class is equal in their own little way, time, style, etc., etc.) just saying WAR is a great job, and people shouldn't limit it to saying...

WAR is only a tank...
WAR is only a damage dealer...

Because it isn't. So please, stop limiting it to certain roles... because the WAR is both, and he/she does it good and is versatile not only because it is both a tank and damage dealer but, because of weapons, and abilities, etc. So please, stop limiting to a certain role, because that isn't the job, that isn't what it's suppossed to do, it isn't what it needs to be, hell, saying it and limiting it to a certain role... isn't a WAR... that is either a PLD or DRK your talking about... because if you limit it to a certain role, and/or not let the WAR be what it's suppossed to be (both a tank and damage dealer) then, your basically calling and saying and making the WAR useless... when it isn't.

In conclusion, do not limit the WAR to a certain role... that isn't what the WAR is. A damage dealer is a DRK, a tank is a PLD, and a WAR is WAR... 'nuff said.

[Brianguam1]

I love War... if i was a pt leader i would take a war over a drk or a drg because a war is sooo versatile... i always have the most up to date equipment and a couple weapons / shield with mithkabobs when i go to lvl up. For example at lvl 30 in Yhoator Jungle Party was... whm, whm, drk, drg, war, thf. The thf would pull and i would use mithkabob, and sneak attack with my gaxe, provoke once, and never had to worry about losing hate after that. I was outdamaging the drk and drg by about 20 hp's each and we all had up to date equipment and wpn skill lvl's. Plus doing a weapon skill chain with the drk we did a combined 450 hp damage each time. With me doing about 190 and the drk doing about 170.

The best part is that i have great armor and could tank with a gaxe and we were doing lvl 5 chains all the time.

I just dont understand why people would want a job in their party that is not versatile... Maybe people will just realize it over time...

[fuz]

uh... you are talking about ~lvl 30?

Things flip around big time in the course of 20 more levels.

[Sinoske]

While I agree the war is very versatile and I love the job but lately in exp party's I get hit so hard. I feel really bad for the whm when they more or less have to spam cure III me depending on the point in the battle. I've noticed that the fights do go relatively faster then with a paladin but I see much more use with myself doing 350 damage sneak + sturmwinds then doing a a bit more damage then paladin but being an MP drain. It all depends on the situation though cause i've seen it work really well.

I guess i'll have to see if there is a difference with Full AF on but for less stressful battles I prefer to party with a paladin.

[Asmandeus]

Post 50

Well.. after 50 we seem become more of the secondary tank/support job and some what more of a damage dealer (at least til 60). Even with the best equipment and foods we are a bit of a mp drain while tanking. Monsters hit for more and more and hate becomes an issue for even VT mobs.

Now that doesn't mean you can't tank anymore, it just takes a bit more planning. A fully leveled sub is pretty much required so that you have every edge possible, mnk or ninja can work (if you can time the blinks well). A thief for sneak/trick starts to become needed, and a brd or rdm becomes a must for the mp drain.

Also.. I've noticed that the closer I get to 60, the "Damage Dealer" melees are finally doing a bit more damage than me (well at least the elvaan dmg dealers are )

It'll be interesting to see if things change at 60 for me. Wearing +15 enmity from full AF and having level 30 subjob abilities should help a little.

[Kenki]

I think warrior can do as much damage as a dark knight per hit but war doesn't have those rapindly increasing power abilities drk has.

However, most dark knights don't know how to utilize their potential ability. Heh, we don't call them drk cause they can do massive attacks but because they have all the evil powerful spells. I have seen a drk using all kinds of evil spell to rapidly decrease the monster's power/def and hp over time. Not to count the Stun spell and they use soul + berserk and the near end to finish the monster. Even as a Ranger I hold great respect for the drk dmg and his ability.

Talking about Dragoon, well I really do think these guys can do more dmg than warrior per hit and with the aid of the pet their power increase by 50% most of the time. However, these guys have nothing else than those high hits. Pratically, they can't improve your party situation (ie. weaken monster), they just have to follow the flow.

About PLD, well from level 25~40 these guys have less defence than warrior until they can get Defender from their warrior sub job. Even if they can temporary boost their defence but that doesn't make them better than warrior with counter ability from monk sub and double attack. However, they use MP to heal themselfs and others which means they are like a small MP battery for your healer => less stress on healer.

I think compare Warrior to a Red Mage is pretty similar to each other. Red Mage can be in the place of main healer if there isn't any other Whm around but whm can do better as a primary healer b/c of naturally large MP pool and MP regen boost with the party buff spells + -na. Warrior can be in the position of main tank if there isn't any ninja/pld around but they won't perform as well as the others. Red Mage can Melee + Magic Burst + debuff very well but Blm will perform better at MB. Same thing goes to Warrior who can do a lot of dmg but very lacking in rapidly harm the monster (drk) or pull out a lot of powerful hits (drg) but War do well in replacing those positions if there aren't any.

One very noticable point about Warrior in a party is they perform very very well as back up tank. Thieves always have hard time using trick attack on main tank (try it and see how hard it is). Most of the time they will perform that on Drgs since they can lose hate with jumps but Drks won't be so happy with it. Monk can be very good in that position but Warrior can out perform Mnk because of defender and the ability to use shield.

When do parties needs warrior? When they have: For example, 1 blm 2 whm 1 nin (or pld) 1 drg/drk/mnk.... and start fighting high evasion monsters (beetles)...., they will later start cursing themselves since they miss the thing too many times or hardly doing enough dmg for a chain. Having a Rdm will prove to be difficult to kill that evil hard shell monster, a warrior will serve very well since he can be the evasion/def debuff and a dmg dealer at the same time.

[fuz]

Per hit, no. At lvl 60 with war sub, drk gets 4 attack bonuses, each adding +6 attack for a total of +24 attack, wheras war only gets 1. Drk usually has a bit more str subbing war (which war can't do, nor does it sub drk most of the time for a similar str boost :p), and that helps as well. Scythes don't really have much more attack at a given level versus greataxe though, sometimes a little less given the level and the equips available. Given the similar equips, levels and the same race, drk will hit harder--it's a fact that can be computed mathematically. This becomes more pronounced on WS damage.

Accuracy is about the same for both since they use the same equips, but war does have access to focus from monk sub which helps rampage and raging a lot--but doesn't last very long. Agressor is very nice though, and has the same charge times as berserk.

All things considered in terms of damage ouput. Drk leads by a good amount, monk even more. Drg is not far behind, but sam ties last place with war for damage. I know it sounds bad, but last place isn't bad, just... acceptable. War gets more utility, and that is what makes it a good class. Even though in last place for melee damage, war has only a small penaly in other roles.

It's how much a class combo can benefit a PT that makes them really shine. I love having a war in my PT; Guillotine --> Raging Rush, some of the most powerful ws used in tandem just destroys things, and really, only a drk and war togeather can do it. Each class sperate isn't worth much and thinking who is better in just individual damage output is silly.

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[RaidenDoria]

I think alot of you defending the drk are missing a very valid point. To start with this whole what melee does the most damage thing is pointless. Melee wont ever be able to do as much damage as BLK or be as usefull as WHM. We are meat shield at the end of the day. What we should be concerned about is what we bring to the party. Like bards like RDM we must use our skills to better the effectivness of a party. War/Nin is great because of blink and because of the fact that its great with damage and can take hits. DRK IMO along with DRG or COMPLETELY usless. I do have a 40 drk. So im not saying this through passing. They become something you have to watch over like a child. There damage is simply unfounded. Yes, they do alot of damage. But, you have to ask your self one question, Is it there place to do the damage they do. I must say -No-. They do tons of damage with no offence at all and gather TONS of hate. Tanks and usefull melee is were its at. Thiefs are very usefull MNKS are as well. They do enough damage but can control it. And not enough to make it a problem for the BLK (the one who -should- be rakcing out the high numbers.)

Theres also this little issue with feeling like an individual.Do a search on your server and see how many DRK there are. Your just another face in the crowd. DRK will never do as much damage as BLK or RNG and they will never tank as well as paladins. The "how much damage can you do" argument is completely unfounded. DRK to be usefull in my eyes should be Kamekaze fighters.. Let them run in there use there abilities and then get yourself something that can take some hits.


..This is of course just -my- opinion.

[Griddlecake]

If you mix the WAR with a MNK as your main you'll get a rather lethal result... Something more powerful than a DRK or DRG, even if they sub with a WAR!

[fuz]

I would have to say that melee can, and have done more damage than a blm. Why? Because blm is dependent on MP to do damage. No mp, no damage. There is more to damage than just simply pouring out spells as fast as you can. The goal in an exp PT is to chain mobs to #4 if not higher, so endurance matters too. In kuftal, with 1 or 2 blm, I couldn't get a #4 chain consistently. In at PT with just my drk, a pld and 4 mages, we had a hard time even breaking #3 because of all the downtime.

In contrast, after replacing our blm with another melee and a PT setup of pld, drk, drg, sam, whm, brd, we were always chaining up to #4, and sometimes #5 just by spamming WS and the occasional skillchain. If we're not doing more damage/hour, i don't see how that would be possible. Of course, these are on crabs we are fighting which melees are supposed to suck on. :p

And I don't think all melee are meant to be dumb meat shields at the end of the day. At the end of the day I think melee are there to provide skillchains, hold hate, and provide the baseline damage for the PT. Without mages, melee is inefficient. Vice versa, with no skillchains to MB on, no good tank, and no source of regular damage, an all mage pt is inefficient because they must expend tremendous amounts of MP without good melee and need to rest after every fight, dropping damage/hour and exp/hour to a dismal level.

Also why would you ever party with more than one tank? If only one person is taking hits, why not make the other melee shed that unnecessary def and do more damage to help increase the damage/hour rate of the PT at litte to no cost in extra MP spent? What good are all those extra defense abilities of a war versus the higher attack of another class if that melee is not the one taking damage? Have you ever been in a PT where it is a necessity that two or even three melees must tank? I've never see it past lvl 40. The pld I PT with holds hate 90% of the time even without a thf. There is a lot more to melee than just tanking. It's about making the whole PT more efficient though doing more damage with skillchains, MB, and good regular hits. This can't be done well with only high defense melees.

Thus the damage melee classes are a necessity, not an option. There is no problem doing lots of damage as a melee and gaining a lot of hate as long as it is controlled. It' not like hate control is any different for classes like blm or the tank.

If you think everyone needs def like a war or better if they create a lot of hate, I guess you won't be pt-ing with a blm, or a rng, or even a whm. My drk dishes out about 2/3 the damage of a blm and has more than twice the def but I guess that's not good enough so you're stuck in a PT will all wars and maybe a pld since you seem to think that they do damage just fine.

Realistically, just a PT of 3 war melee and the usual mages isn't going to cut it as well as a a pt substituting 2 of those melee for pld and drk. You have more flexibility with 3 wars yes, but if you actually have the skill to play the game closer to the limit--specialization lets you go much further. This is not just my opinion; this is a fact of the game.

[RaidenDoria]

Youve done more damage than a blm?....Well.. This i gotta see. I didnt say that having all tanks in a PT was a good thing. I just think there are other melee's that can do very good damage and control there hate. From what i can see. Alot of the 70+ Jap players do to. Been on any HNM hunts laetly? Not a whole lotta melee to be seen. Just some blink tanks a pally and a whole lotta mages. THAT is a fact.

[fuz]

I didn't say I was more powerful than a blm myself. I specifically stated already that I do about 2/3 the damage of a blm.

If you actually bothered to try and read, I said that in an extended fight blm can't keep up. Melee only depend on heals to keep going and thus are more efficent the longer a fight lasts. On enemies that a specific meele is stong against (drg-flying, mnk-bones) it is preferable just to skip the blm altogeather (or get a rng). On crawlers, multihit WS > blm. Thefore, over a period of time, especially in good circumstances, melees can become stronger than blm.

That is the exact opposite of an hnm hunt where it's just as much damage you can do in the shortest time possible. Only blm and ranger are suited for that. Because downtime is not an issue after the fight, there is no real reason to use melee damage dealers except to tank and secure hate. There is no extended time interval for melee to catch up in damage while a blm rests, and so blm is better off in these situations.

At level 60+ any melee can use thf sub to secure hate. Drk is probably the best one available post 66 with the gswd and scythe WS. The immense hate they generate is easily negated at this point, and put to a good use. Actually, there is hardly a case that I've seen where a drk doesn't sub thf after 65. Thus there is no argument that drk generates too much hate at this point, because a lot of it is now on someone else, preferably a tank.

Some people wonder why sam and war have +enmity on their AF-- imo, it's because they don't dish out as much damage to hold hate like the other melees. Melees are the first and second line of defense for the mages, and can only do that job by getting more aggro than the nukers and healers in the back.

[Synbios]

Originally posted by fuz
At level 60+ any melee can use thf sub to secure hate. Drk is probably the best one available post 66 with the gswd and scythe WS. The immense hate they generate is easily negated at this point, and put to a good use. Actually, there is hardly a case that I've seen where a drk doesn't sub thf after 65. Thus there is no argument that drk generates too much hate at this point, because a lot of it is now on someone else, preferably a tank.

Some people wonder why sam and war have +enmity on their AF-- imo, it's because they don't dish out as much damage to hold hate like the other melees. Melees are the first and second line of defense for the mages, and can only do that job by getting more aggro than the nukers and healers in the back.

DRG and RNG can't /THF to secure hate. WAR's enmity is for him to tank, not because he can't do damage, when compared to PLDs who has Bash/Flash/Cures to help keep hate, WARs can only rely on enmity. Hate is only needed on the tank to keep the mobs away from mages, not all melee.