Interesting Data on High Lv WAR subs

[Sigram]

I have been leveling my WAR/MNK and needed to work on my MNK sub. Unfortunately, while I enjoy playing my WAR, I just am not crazy about MNK and not thrilled to have to level it. Before I put more time into MNK I thought I would do some research to see if MNK is really the job I want to level as my sub.

Given that one of my main objectives as a WAR is to be wanted in parties at higher levels (>40), I looked to see what high level people are playing. Presumably after many levels of exp they, on average, are playing the combinations that work well and are wanted for parties.

I was not interested in 1-40 because people are new and you will see a wide variety of subs. On three different days now at JP prime time I did a search of WAR between lv 40-75. On average there were about 200 WAR in this lv range. Looking at lv 40-50, 60% had THF subbed. Between lv 50-60, 60% of the subs were again THF, with a few MNK and a few WHM subs (WHM was a little bit of a surprise there).

From 60+ SAM was the most popular sub (no supprise there), with THF right behind it. There were very few () 60+ people with MNK subbed. 75% had SAM subbed. 15% had THF subed, and the rest were varied, and a number had WHN subbed.

Given what "everyone" says about WHM, I was supprised to see that there were a number of high level WAR/WHM. I even took into account those people who may have had WHM subbed for a quest. There were still a number of WHM subs in parties apparently huntiong for exp (based on location hunting).

I was also surprised to find very few high levels use WAR/MNK. Given the scarcety of tanks 40+, many WAR have to tank. I think that MNK gives the best abilities and stats for a tank, but few seem to go that way 40+. I am considering replacing MNK with THF that would be more usefull later.

Even better would be if I could convince my self that a WHM sub is usefull to a party I could sub my lv 42 WHM and not have to level another sub at all.

I have seen a lot of input from new player on what sub people "think" is good. It would be nice if we could get some input from experianced JP players on what works well at higher levels and why.

[Eyez]

High Level Wars & What they Sub

I am not a JP but I will give you in put on my warrior. I am level 65 and have subbed MNK until just recently. Actually a good majority of Warriors have MNK sub-jobs due to the abilities the monk has Such as Boost, HP % Boost. However when you reach 60 many switch to SAM as sub. The reasoning behind SAM sub is TP Store, Meditate, Third Eye, etc. There are also a lot of THF subbed wars. A lot of times you'll have a NIN or PAL as a tank in your group and sneak/trick becomes handy at that point to help inflict much more damanage.

Warriors have there break WS's and they have there DMG WS's. Generally a warrior in a PT will use a break at the beginning of the fight to reduce a monsters stats, then want to use a DMG WS later to inflict dmg to the monster.

[iccchen]

The reason mnk is not a popular sub job for higher level warriors is because as you level up, at around 50+, you'll start to notice that warriors just don't cut it as tanks anymore.

Since 50+ I am very, very rarely the main tank of the PT. When I eat Fish Mithkabobs, I can tank *okay* but hardly the ideal tank by any standards. Warrior's role would shift from mostly tanking at lower levels to a more damaging/support role at higher levels, particular after 60 when you get Raging Rush.

Most of the time I am the secondary tank for trick attacks. Pre-60 most of the time as soon as I get into PT I am asked to do Shield Break, and after 60 more often than not I am asked to chain Raging Rush with the Dark Knight. That's why an agressive oriented sub like thief and samurai is much more preferred at higher levels.

[TokeN]

So 30+ i should be using /THF when i am not main tank?

[Eyez]

THF is good choice when 30+ and not MT.
SAM is good choice anytime 60+ w/ war
MNK is good choice anytime w/ war
WHM is good choice when you like to solo

[Burzum]

How about Ninja from 22+ For being an off tank for Fud...? Just throw a blink up... Thief does their sneak/Trick.. on Pal... == now need to heal the War... ?

[Klumps]

The war/whms you saw in groups were probably in skillup PTs...people set up a group (or even an alliance) for the sole purpose of running around and killing decent-tough con mobs to raise their skills with weapons. Since it's unrealistic to be switching your weapon out all the time in a group (especially for warrior, who wants to carry 7 weapons around?), you join these skillup tours.

Since everyone in the PT is there to get skill, not to level, the PT members won't follow their traditional roles...the whm isn't there to heal you, he's there to raise his club skill. So, you sub whm so that you can take care of yourself. This is how classes like rdm, whm, blm, sum get their higher-level WSs, and makes it easier for the melee jobs to skillup the weapons that they don't usually use in a PT.

[The Heretic]

I think its terrible that you ask for help from experienced JP players when experienced players from anywhere else can give you good advice as well.

Back to the old stereotyping again.

[Sigram]

A lot of good information here I think. Thank you for all the replies.

Klumps, i was not aware of the skillup parties. That very well may explain the high level WAR/WHM I see.

Heretic, I define "experianced" as those who have had the game for as long as possible and played the high end game for a while. To the best of my knowledge, the fact is the game was released in Japan, in Japanese only, some year, year and a half ago before it was released in English (or any other language if in fact it is in any other language than Eng or Japanese). So 98% of the most experianced player base is certainly JP. There are exceptions (Japenese fluent people who imported the game), but I believe they are few and far between. While I realize there are non-JP players who have reached the 50-60's they can't have been there very long, and while they obviously will have some experiance, it will not be the same as people who have played 50/60+ for 6-12 months (before the NA version was even released). If the same comment you objected to was made a year from now, I would agree with you that it would be promoting a sterotype as non-JP players would have had plenty of time to get a lot of playing experiance.

[Chanchai]

Originally posted by The Heretic
I think its terrible that you ask for help from experienced JP players when experienced players from anywhere else can give you good advice as well.

Back to the old stereotyping again.

okay, quoting Sigram:
"I have seen a lot of input from new player on what sub people "think" is good. It would be nice if we could get some input from experianced JP players on what works well at higher levels and why."

he mentions experince here and new players, do you deny JP have more experience then the average NA in general? he isnt saying i dont want advice from americans he says he wants advice from Experince players and mentions JP since those are without a doubt more experinced.

To get to the topic.. my warrior is only LV29 but my 2 last parties were with a LV51-53 warrior ( he has levelled twice since i met him) he had MNK sub and seeing how he more or less used everything you can except for H2H bonus i'd say monk is a good sub in later levels too, the thing is if you arent maintank you can sub some other stuff for more damage / WS and so on.

PS. no PLD or NIN (for some reason they are always rare when im forming groups)