Stats do what!?

[NewbieFF11]

This is a stat cap question.




As a hume thf Lv 75:

What is the max Stat of Dex Agi Eva you can add on with gear? And where can I read this information.

[Durahansolo]

Re: Stats do what!?

This is a stat cap question.




As a hume thf Lv 75:

What is the max Stat of Dex Agi Eva you can add on with gear? And where can I read this information.

Keep in mind that there are many combinations of equipment you can use at that level for your stat boosts and you may have to gear swap for SATA or evading. You could go to FFXIclopedia and scour though the gear and put together a dream equipment list on a spreadsheet, saying alot of it will be Rare/Ex and some will be buyable/questable. Then just calculate from the equipment what the stat bonuses are. I used to do stat equipment searches through somepage.com but ever since they got that virus there last year, I haven't been back.

[NewbieFF11]

Re: Stats do what!?

If at 75 my max Dex is 70 and with gear I can get +45 thats 115 total Dex I would like to know if I get different gear and go pasted 115 dex. Is there a cap on total Dex you can have so I can aim for that and not go over Dex cap like how you can go over cap for other stats. I would like to know the total Dex Agi and Eva cap if there is one because there is one for haste which is 25% and if the Dex cap is 110 or 100 I need to adjust my gear to focus on another stat

[Durahansolo]

Re: Stats do what!?

If at 75 my max Dex is 70 and with gear I can get +45 thats 115 total Dex I would like to know if I get different gear and go pasted 115 dex. Is there a cap on total Dex you can have so I can aim for that and not go over Dex cap like how you can go over cap for other stats. I would like to know the total Dex Agi and Eva cap if there is one because there is one for haste which is 25% and if the Dex cap is 110 or 100 I need to adjust my gear to focus on another stat

Oh I got what you're saying now. I don't think I've heard of a stat cap except on haste. I'd check it myself but I'm at work and of course ffxiclopedia is blocked. If you look up a stat eg. AGI or DEX if there is a cap, it should be listed under there. With my old Great Axe I had STR+50ish with Hasso on Warrior and STR gear equipped which isn't would probably be higher if I had some of the better rare/ex gear.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Stats do what!?

There's a hard cap on haste, but not on most stats. There are some effective caps for some stats based on circumstances that are hard to map out exactly, but if you're talking about the DEX and AGI mods on SA/TA, those don't max out at all, so stacking it on is good so long as you aren't sacrificing anything you need at the moment to do it.

Where you'd tend to have to worry about 'capping' is that if you have a LOT of a particular intermediate stat and not much of the corresponding base stat, you can lose some of the effect of the former. For example, too much +Attack and not enough STR, too much +Accuracy and not enough DEX, too much +Evasion and not enough AGI, too much Defense and not enough VIT (though Def/VIT has a rather severe diminishing returns problem of its own at higher levels). There's no hard and fast rule as to how much is too much/little here, as it depends on level difference, the particular stats of the mob in question... For the most part this is just a minor caveat to the 1 Attack = 2 STR / 1 Accuracy = 2 DEX / etc. rule.

[Armando]

Re: Stats do what!?

Where you'd tend to have to worry about 'capping' is that if you have a LOT of a particular intermediate stat and not much of the corresponding base stat, you can lose some of the effect of the former. For example, too much +Attack and not enough STR, too much +Accuracy and not enough DEX, too much +Evasion and not enough AGI, too much Defense and not enough VIT (though Def/VIT has a rather severe diminishing returns problem of its own at higher levels).

Actually, this isn't really true. For example, there's no difference between "raw" Accuracy obtained from combat skills or equipment and Accuracy derived from DEX. The final number is all that matters. STR and Attack affect different things in the damage equation, but there's no real correlation; there's no way one stat can directly handicap the effects of the other.

I think there are two main things that haven't really been mentioned yet, that the OP likely isn't taking into consideration.

1) All stats aren't made equal. For example, Haste and Double Attack both increase damage and TP gain, but Haste is the better stat because its effect increases exponentially. Adding 10% more Double Attack always has the same result, but adding 10% Haste to an already existing amount will increase your performance by more than 10%. Likewise, Accuracy is a better stat than Attack; increasing how often you hit by 10% is better than increasing how much damage you do per hit by 10% because raising your damage per hit doesn't let you get TP faster.

In general, the hierarchy is Haste > Accuracy > Attack > STR and DEX. However, Haste doesn't really come into play until the higher levels.

2) Stats don't exist in a vacuum. Stats come from equipment, and the stats on equipment can be arbitrary. Just because two pieces of equipment for the same slot offer different stats, it doesn't mean they're offering equivalent amounts. For example, while Accuracy is more important than Attack, using an Optical Earring (+1 Accuracy, -2 Attack) over a Beetle Earring +1 (+3 Attack) is a bad move. Trading 5 Attack for 1 Accuracy is a bad move, especially at low levels when that 5 Attack increases your damage more since enemies have lower Defense.

For general use, you need to understand what each stat does and how to be able to decide which equipment is better. For specialized situations, some stats may become useless and others may become very important (Haste is useless when gearing up for Sneak Attack or Weapon Skills; Accuracy is useless when doing SATA Viper Bite because it's only one hit and SA guarantees it'll hit.)

[Lunaryn]

Re: Stats do what!?

Admittedly, the 'capping' I mentioned above is from a conversation about damage formulae from years ago, so I may be confusing things somewhat. I remember though that someone was talking about a situation where, against mobs of a high enough level, the player STR vs. mob VIT difference was too high, and it was creating a bottleneck of sorts where adding more Attack wasn't having the desired effect. I might try and dig up the post, but it's from way back in 2006 IIRC.

[Feenicks]

Re: Stats do what!?

Another important thing is that in some cases you get diminishing returns from stats. For example a higher VIT will mean you'll get hit for less damage but once you cross a certain point the benefits will be lower. This doesn't apply to stat modifiers for weapon skills, so you should still add as much stat+ as you can into your WS macros, but when it comes to increasing STR for higher attacks, AGI for better evasion etc, some is good, but a lot isn't worth it.

[Armando]

Re: Stats do what!?

Admittedly, the 'capping' I mentioned above is from a conversation about damage formulae from years ago, so I may be confusing things somewhat. I remember though that someone was talking about a situation where, against mobs of a high enough level, the player STR vs. mob VIT difference was too high, and it was creating a bottleneck of sorts where adding more Attack wasn't having the desired effect. I might try and dig up the post, but it's from way back in 2006 IIRC.

That's a misconception that's managed to survive to this day, mostly because out of all the nonsense theories developed way back when we hardly knew anything about the game, this is one of the few ones that made sense.

The formula for standard damage is (DMG + fSTR) * PDIF. fSTR is the part that's affected by STR and VIT; as a general rule every 4 STR adds 1 fSTR, every 4 VIT lowers fSTR by 1 (there's cases where it can take 5 when fSTR is close to 0, but those are more exceptions than anything else.) PDIF is the part that's affected by Attack and Defense; it's a range of randomly generated numbers, but the average will usually be close to the ratio of Attack/Defense after level correction is applied.

Anyways, they affect totally different things and boosting PDIF by 20% is going to yield a 20% boost regardless of what your DMG or fSTR is. The very worst that can happen with having too little STR is that your fSTR goes negative, but that's stupidly hard to do (you have to be a mage in mage gear fighting an IT mob) and even then, there's a limit to how negative fSTR can go (it doesn't go very far.) Basically all you would lose is a handful of DMG.

Another important thing is that in some cases you get diminishing returns from stats. For example a higher VIT will mean you'll get hit for less damage but once you cross a certain point the benefits will be lower. This doesn't apply to stat modifiers for weapon skills, so you should still add as much stat+ as you can into your WS macros, but when it comes to increasing STR for higher attacks, AGI for better evasion etc, some is good, but a lot isn't worth it.

The only stat with diminishing returns is Defense. DEX and AGI don't have caps; only Accuracy/Evasion/Crit rate do, but those are hard caps, no diminishing returns involved. fSTR also has a hard cap but it's unfeasable to reach because you would have to sacrifice more important stats, giving you worse damage anyways.

Also, loading up on stat mods for WS usually fails for any good WS unless you're a SAM.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Stats do what!?

Erf, yeah, forgot to mention that together with Haste. Though the cap on Accuracy isn't quite the same as that on Haste; Haste has a hard cap on how much of the stat you can stack, which makes sense given that its role in the formulas is fairly simple. The Accuracy cap is actually a cap on hit rate; after all calculations have been done with regard to attacker's accuracy and target's evasion, the resulting hit rate may not be any greater than 95%. Reaching a 95% hit rate on a target mob is referred to as capped Accuracy.

And I think the formula that was being thrown around at the time was different, yeah. I was struggling to understand them anyway at the time. From more recent stuff I've seen, though, pDIF caps, right? Does fSTR? pDIF cap comes into play on TW mobs, so it's mostly a farming speed concern, but it sounds like on very weak mobs, DMG > STR > Attack, but on stronger mobs DMG > Attack > STR? Or am I reading that wrong?

At any rate, for 1H weapon users (THF uses only 1H weapons), every increase of 2 STR grants 1 Attack automatically, so any time you're faced with a tradeoff of 2 STR vs. 1 Attack, go for STR. Similarly for DEX/Accuracy, AGI/Evasion (and I think Ranged Attack?), VIT/Defense. However, most such tradeoffs are usually smaller amounts on the base stat.

[Armando]

Re: Stats do what!?

And I think the formula that was being thrown around at the time was different, yeah. I was struggling to understand them anyway at the time. From more recent stuff I've seen, though, pDIF caps, right? Does fSTR? pDIF cap comes into play on TW mobs, so it's mostly a farming speed concern, but it sounds like on very weak mobs, DMG > STR > Attack, but on stronger mobs DMG > Attack > STR? Or am I reading that wrong?

Yeah, pDIF caps. If there's no level correction present (i.e. if the mob isn't higher in level than you) then your pDIF caps when your Attack is twice the mob's Def. If the mob is higher than you then you need more than that to offset the level difference penalty.

And yeah, fSTR has a cap, but it's insanely hard to reach. The cap is 8 + weaponRank, where weaponRank is DMG/9 (e.g. 56 DMG -> weaponRank = 6). But, like I said, it takes roughly 4 STR to make fSTR go up by 1. To hit the fSTR cap for a Rank 3 (27-35) DMG weapon, you need to have 40 STR more than the enemy's VIT. This just isn't feasable unless the mob is like EP or less.

For tough things, Attack is usually the best stat, simply because it tends to come in much larger amounts than STR, and because pDIF gets penalized for every level the mob is higher than you whereas fSTR doesn't. For farming too weaks, then you mostly want a high DMG/sec ratio; Attack and STR are most likely already capped.