Starting my life of crime...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

After a lot of consideration, I've decided to pair up THF and DNC and take them to 75, mostly for the fact they fill my farming, crafting and soloing needs when RNG and COR are more wanted for the endgame stuff and may need better funding sources than Foobar's BST.

I intend to take this two just as seriously as the others, mind you, I'm just accepting there will be some frustrations with thier desireablity up at high levels. God knows I have the haste gear for them at 75, not to mention all the subjobs I'd need.

Just curious if there's anything signifigant I should pick up along the way aside from the usual melee stuff. Mainly, I'm curious how to work SATA gear swaps, what I'll need there and what non-AH daggers I should be looking into. I seem to have some trouble lining up SA with WS in macro, but then my THF really only just got SA before I picked it back up.

I certainly plan to utilize the crossbow as much as I can with THF, especially since I'm all about ranged weapons to start with. Pity they don't get raw damage bolts, but I'll live >.>;

[Armando]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

You definitely want a Hornetneedle.

[Malacite]

Re: Starting my life of crime...



Absolute must for end game THF (still working on mine) along with






Don't bother swapping DEX and AGI sets until 60+ when you have assassin, since before that you will always combine SA and TA. After that you can either make separate gear swaps or simply macro in the respective stat on your SA/TA macros themselves. Raparee Harness is also really nice if you can get one ><;


The way I've always done SATAWS is this; (again pre-60)


/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 2
/ws "Viper Bite" <t>

For some retarded reason there's slightly more delay on Trick Attack, so if you only do a /wait of 1 it will often screw up.

[Balfree]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

Heh... I am leveling dancer to use as a MAIN SUB on my THF because I plan to solo it mostly, i wont refuse an invite but yeah, i wont be sitting around with the green dot of despair. I'm at 44 THF right now, I finally got to the point where my DNC is high enough to be worth subbing (waltz...) and it makes a HUGE difference, seriously... NIN is overated compared to DNC, i feel. Having Xbow capped is crucial if you plan on ever hitting specially true when soloing, dont want that bbolt to miss.

Other than that, just gear up on evasion and agility, remember when you solo.. you can't SATA, but SA is a good battle starter, and since your TP is mostly useless because all your WSs suck without SATA... just save it for dancing.

Obviously if you want to PT normally... i'm sure you know the ropes, i'm having a blast with THF, both in solo and in PTs, DEX AGI and ACC equipment, and thanks to armando's tip, valorizing damage over stats on weapons.

[Akashimo]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

I think I died on the inside knowing BBQ is leveling thf now ; ;
j/k that happened when I saw mala thf

Anyways, damn, lost my chain of thought now...
Oh right, dagger's I've favored and still have for capped stuff are: Bone Knife+1, Hornetneedle, AF dagger, those Kukuris in the 60s.

A fun sub I'd enjoy too much for 40 and 50 caps /blu, SA/TA bludgeon is just too nice when storing tp or no tp at all.

If you can easily, get the plus one af feet and hands, mostly hands so you'll have them at 74, then request the af to level in.

Thats all my fried brain can come up with atm, time for sleep.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

I recommend gear swapping earlier than 60, I say around 30-40 is when you should start. Basically when you get to the point when you say to yourself " "A" piece would be good for melee/TP, and "B" piece would be good for SA(TA), what should I do?", it's time to start gear swapping.

[Malacite]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

There really isn't much worth swapping for though at those levels given the gear selection (we're talking seriously minor boosts here....)

Also you may want a pair of those DEX +3 swords (forget the name) pre-33.

[Armando]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

THF should gear swap starting at 15 because DEX and AGI are trash for meleeing and a good THF will melee in melee gear, not SATA gear.

X's Knife is but a dream for most people. I would forget it exists for now and focus more on working towards Sirocco and Blau Dolch.

Also remember to ALWAYS go for the daggers with the best DPS/stats. Think like a melee when picking weapons, forget DEX and AGI even exist. Don't even consider Lust Dagger. Like practically all sin weapons, it sucks.

If you solo, remember that you can Sneak Attack mobs mid-fight if you use a Sleep Bolt. Just remember to go through the mob, not around it (especially if it's not something very small like a sapling or mandragora.)

[Ziero]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

Other than that, just gear up on evasion and agility, remember when you solo.. you can't SATA, but SA is a good battle starter, and since your TP is mostly useless because all your WSs suck without SATA... just save it for dancing.

Obviously if you want to PT normally... i'm sure you know the ropes, i'm having a blast with THF, both in solo and in PTs, DEX AGI and ACC equipment, and thanks to armando's tip, valorizing damage over stats on weapons.

I used sword at those lvls (pre-60) when soloing, because if you're soloing it, you won't have acc problems and dagger WS suck. Seriously, Viper Bite actually hurts a soloing thf more then it helps.

There really isn't much worth swapping for though at those levels given the gear selection (we're talking seriously minor boosts here....)

Also you may want a pair of those DEX +3 swords (forget the name) pre-33.

Actually there are plenty of great Dex/Agi pieces at that lvl in the game, far more then TP worthy items. But still, for whatever you can get, gear swapping is still extremely helpful.

And no, you don't want those swords.

Something that I do as a thf is keep all my macros seperate. There's no reason to have SA, TA and WS on the same macro because any bit of lag can cause you to skip a step or blow WS early or any number of things. As such I have an SA macro, TA macro, Dex gear macro, Agi Macro and numerous WS macros, ontop of multiple Acc/Att gear, Haste gear, and Eva gear macros. This way I can custom build my gear depending on the exact situation I currently need gear for. And if you're not a fan of blinking, and easy way to help reduce it is to try and keep all external gear on a single macro. I.E. if you have Dex gear for body, legs, hands, rings, neck, feet and back, you put the body, legs, hands and feet on a single macro and all other items on a new macro.

Also, in pts, you'll want to pre-charge SaTa. Do it right before you pull the mob or right after whoever is pulling announces the pull. This way the timer is counting down as the mob comes into camp and you'll be ready to hit with SaTa as soon as it gets there. And if you're going to use Flee for pulling, do it after you kill the mob and head out for another, not after you pull a new mob, I noticed many Thfs doing that but in the end it just wastes Flee and keeps the pt waiting as the new mob comes in.

And one more thing, unless you have a really good offhand weapon, or are pulling fast moving mobs (Puk and Colibri spring to mind) try going /War. Berserk is hot and highly underrated by thfs. As is meat because, imo, unless you have a Brd sushi isn't all that great on Exp mobs (if you can't hit it reliably, your gear sucks or you shouldn't be fighting it).

And one last thing. If you fight beastmen, make sure you leave a few inven spaces open so you can steal their cash. Nothing wrong with picking a few pockets during an exp pt...even if Mug sucks.

[Balfree]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

Swords huh? Good idea.. never even thought about it... I just used whatever weapon I found suitable for party situations TBH, but I'll give that a try, makes sense...

[Armando]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

I used sword at those lvls (pre-60) when soloing, because if you're soloing it, you won't have acc problems and dagger WS suck. Seriously, Viper Bite actually hurts a soloing thf more then it helps.

You won't have Acc problems but you won't necessarily have Acc capped. You'll also lose a good chunk of Attack.

Gust Slash is a good alternative for the soloing THF if you're not going to do SA Viper Bite with Sleep Bolts (which can be a pain in the ass to do.)

As is meat because, imo, unless you have a Brd sushi isn't all that great on Exp mobs (if you can't hit it reliably, your gear sucks or you shouldn't be fighting it).

THF needs sushi as much as any other DD. There's nothing about the THF jobs or the dagger class that changes the value of either food.

Also, Sleep Bolts are wonderful for manipulating a mob. You're fighting a gobbie, you brought it down to 26%, sleep bolt it. Get it down to 24% with Sleep Bolts, put some distance between you two and when it wakes up it'll go for Bomb Toss automatically because you're out of range for Gob Rush. Now run out of range, problem solved.

I also recommend my "run in a backwards circle while in 1st person view (and not locked on to the mob)" technique for avoiding close-range TP moves (and letting you consistently outrun Meltdown/Self-Destruct without having to react to it.)

[Ziero]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

I know there's no difference between Thf and Dagger and other DD jobs, but on most mobs, unless you over hunt, sushi isn't needed. There's no reason to use sushi at 30/40/50 as a thf unless your pt is fighting mobs that are too high for you or you're fighting beetles with no dispeller.

And I didn't notice any real difference, per hit, in sword dmg vs dagger dmg while soloing. And Fastblade is a much better WS then Gust Slash. And using Viper Bite works against sleep bolt soloing. Once you poison the mob, it'll be at least a minute before you can actually sleep it. And Sa+Fastblade works just as well as Sa+VB without the poison effect. Heck, even soloing Fastblade is better then any pre-60 dagger WS (except maybe Cyclone, which is AoE and thus dangerous).

Though I don't know how /dnc soloing works as I haven't done it myself, or know if it really changes anything in terms of offensive capabilities. You may end up being better off with a Dagger in that case since you won't be relying on WS as you'll use TP to cure/debuff instead.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

As is meat because, imo, unless you have a Brd sushi isn't all that great on Exp mobs (if you can't hit it reliably, your gear sucks or you shouldn't be fighting it).

With the exception of colibri, as both BRD and COR, I generally expect the melee to take care of thier own accuracy and sushi has usually proven to be more than sufficient given that the accuracy given from ir is percentage based and not a flat amount like BRD or COR would give. Additionally, as a THF, I know that if I'm pulling that I won't always have the luxury of those buffs so I think using sushi would be in my best interest and not just on the condition that a BRD or COR was present.

And really, hell will freeze over before I buff accuracy on anything but a colibri party. Accuracy is the melee's problem, period (I really have no sympathy on the matter, no one is out there making you level). BRD and COR have better buffs to give the PT and to put it frankly, what a THF needs isn't that high on list if they're pulling. Things like Attack, Critical Hit rate, STR etude and Haste rank higher in priority and I think most THFs would prefer those when they can get them.

Also, Sleep Bolts are wonderful for manipulating a mob. You're fighting a gobbie, you brought it down to 26%, sleep bolt it. Get it down to 24% with Sleep Bolts, put some distance between you two and when it wakes up it'll go for Bomb Toss automatically because you're out of range for Gob Rush. Now run out of range, problem solved.

I also recommend my "run in a backwards circle while in 1st person view (and not locked on to the mob)" technique for avoiding close-range TP moves (and letting you consistently outrun Meltdown/Self-Destruct without having to react to it.)

Yeah, thanks for reminding me about that. I've done a fair bit of /THF on BST and soloing things with crossbow on RNG, so these were important sorts of lessons to learn. I actually soloed a lot of organs in sea as RNG and learned to solo RNG there, not the best place to practice, but you learn not to fuck up quickly.

[Ziero]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

With the exception of colibri, as both BRD and COR, I generally expect the melee to take care of thier own accuracy and sushi has usually proven to be more than sufficient given that the accuracy given from ir is percentage based and not a flat amount like BRD or COR would give. Additionally, as a THF, I know that if I'm pulling that I won't always have the luxury of those buffs so I think using sushi would be in my best interest and not just on the condition that a BRD or COR was present.

And really, hell will freeze over before I buff accuracy on anything but a colibri party. Accuracy is the melee's problem, period (I really have no sympathy on the matter, no one is out there making you level). BRD and COR have better buffs to give the PT and to put it frankly, what a THF needs isn't that high on list if they're pulling. Things like Attack, Critical Hit rate, STR etude and Haste rank higher in priority and I think most THFs would prefer those when they can get them.

...actually, I meant that if you have a Brd, you should eat sushi and get Att songs. Otherwise, with no Brd, you gear for acc and eat meat. Why would I suggest sushi for Brd if the Brd was going to do acc songs? That's overkill on acc and a waste of a Brd. But sushi, by itself, pre 60, just isn't that great or needed unless the mobs you're fighting are way too strong for you to be fighting anyway. Most thfs make the mistake of only focusing for SaTa dmg and ignoring their DoT per-hit dmg. But when gear right those dagger swings can actually mean something. And on that note, if you do use Sushi, Sole or gtfo.

Also, another piece of advice I'll give is about a gear item which I never see anyone else using. Tabin Boots +1, lvl 59, 3 Acc and 3 Eva. Great item and when I got it they were dirt cheap. All I ever see thfs wearing are AF, Leapers or Dragon boots...all of which suck for TP gain. Don't be that guy.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Starting my life of crime...

.Also, another piece of advice I'll give is about a gear item which I never see anyone else using. Tabin Boots +1, lvl 59, 3 Acc and 3 Eva. Great item and when I got it they were dirt cheap. All I ever see thfs wearing are AF, Leapers or Dragon boots...all of which suck for TP gain. Don't be that guy.

Yeah, I hear ya, I'll be sure to grab a pair up when I get near that level. That should hold me over to my Dusk feet.