Tips for upcoming THF

[hongman]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Rng now 8 xD

[Malacite]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

awesome, keep going ^^b

[Tokitoki]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Around those levels sushi is only giving around 7-8 acc where Rice Dumplings give 5 acc and 20% attack. Which is more beneficial?

Now look at Jack O Lantern's 10 acc versus Rice Dumplings' 5 acc and +20% attack. I think it's pretty clear which is going to do better overall.

[711rocks]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Every job has fine acc with capped weapons 1-40ish
Thf with crappy h2h skill and att food is fine, that's how we had to do it back in the day y0
It was either you ate a meat kabob or if you were a mage you ate a pie.
Gear is better nowadays too, and people can have merits.
Eat the damn attack food.

[Malacite]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Sword if I remember correctly on THF goes up by about 2 per level for THF since it's a D ranked skill.

So by level 20, you'll have 42 base attack, give or take a few points (my math might be off a little assuming you gain 3 and not 2 points for a few of the early levels, but I'm sure you don't)

That means rice dumplings will give you 8.4 attack. Totally not worth it IMO (unless you're using dagger or a lot of bolts to do damage. Then you're getting a nice boost), you're better off going straight +acc or straight attack (11.34 attack from mutton if sword; 17.01 if dagger!)

So how the hell is a Jack only 5% accuracy increase when you only have 42 skill on sword by 20? 1 skill = 1 accuracy and attack, so that's a 25% increase right there.


Having recently leveled BRD again in the dunes eating mutton with sword and using minuet + madrigal I can honestly say that the jacks are noticable. Even with all those buffs I couldn't get most mobs to check any lower than neutral evade or def and BRD has a higher skill rating than THF in sword (C-, B- in dagger)


And again the +10 evasion is really nice too, for soloing and pulling. Again, sushi is *mainly* for landing acid bolts if you're having trouble with that, and stop forgetting about the +5 DEX. It has a visible effect on Sneak Attack damage. Granted, that's only once a minute versus a full time attack bonus but it's still worth mentioning.

EDIT: That said, Mutton is probably the better food most of the time, especially for dagger users. But for the nth time, if you're having trouble landing hits on SWORD then TRY a Jack-o'-Lantern.

[Armando]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Remember, a change of 2 Accuracy = 1% hit rate, always. It doesn't matter if 52 is a 24% boost numerically from 42, your hit rate will still only go up by 5%. This is why the skill-gap doesn't make much of a difference accuracy-wise either, and why you shouldn't justify Jacks with the skill gap. You're only 3.5% hit rate behind the next dude if you have a 7 skill gap from D vs A skills, somewhat less if you consider THF's high DEX. If someone with an A skill can eat meat, so you can you - you'll still only be 3.5% hit rate behind him.

Also, by Lv.20 you'd have closer to 60-70 Attack. All characters have 8 base Attack, plus the 42 from skill, plus STR/2, plus Attack Earrings and Mighty Rings, etc.

[Malacite]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

I figured my numbers were a little off (8 base + STR) but I thought accuracy+ had a more direct influence than that. idk, +10 to hit rate just seems like a rather large increase to me, especially with such a low skill rank.

I was basing it on my experience with BRD. eating meat and popping mad/min I was still having def/eva issues on some mobs (not all, but too many for my liking) and that was with capped sword skill, meat, and cornette +1.

To be honest, a lot of people say go sword, but I find that you're better off sticking to dagger and eating meat. You'll get the most attack that way without sacrificing accuracy. More over, I never found Sneak Attack + Fast Blade to be all that powerful. I often did more damage over all by keeping them separate (and besides that you really don't want to pull hate).

The common misconception is that dagger damage sucks; this is not the case. Most THF tend to sub NIN and don't eat meat. That's why their DoT "sucks". Dagger is just fine for THF at any level if you gear up for it and use the right food.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Meh. The problem at low levels are the crabs. Dagger + meat still means 0 dmg when Scissor Guard is up, except for SA. Heck, I've seen Dagger doing 0 dmg while Scissor Guard is down. 0 dmg means no TP, no matter how accurate you are.

Seriously, if not for the crabs, I'd actually think better of Jack-o'-Lantern. As it is, it's a great kiting food for CoP 2.5 (Mammets fight) for me, but rather iffy on most other things.

[Armando]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but dagger really is downright horrible pre-25. The difference in DMG/Delay ratios is ridiculous. It's not really viable at all 'til 25 because Federation Knife actually boasts a decent DMG/sec ratio, good +stats and by then you'll be in the jungles (+25% damage against Mandragoras.)

And believe me, Nagamaki's tests were thorough. That 2 Acc = 1% hit rate thing is accurate. If you can eat meat with a dagger you can eat meat with a sword. The difference in hit rate won't be perceivable through observation, it's just a placebo.

[Malacite]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Crabs aren't so bad if you have acid bolts handy, and there are other mobs you can hunt in the dunes too.

You're right about the damage/delay differences between dagger and sword, but I'm still inclined to stick with the job's primary weapon. That's just my opinion.

[711rocks]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Crabs aren't so bad if you have acid bolts handy, and there are other mobs you can hunt in the dunes too.
You're right about the damage/delay differences between dagger and sword, but I'm still inclined to stick with the job's primary weapon. That's just my opinion.

Acids bolts ftw

SA fast blade and SA combo > SA wasp sting

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Acid bolt is helpful, but it isn't terribly fast to fire off, and it doesn't always land when THF shoots, and it doesn't always proc when it lands.

If you're spamming Acid Bolt when a crab is spamming Scissor Guard in the last 20% of its life, you're not doing much for your DoT either. And, like I said, I saw dagger doing 0 dmg against crabs without Scissor Guard. Oh, and Fish, too.

Of course, Acid Bolt is great to have; just have a BLM ready to nuke away the last 15-20% of the Crab's or Fish's HP to save the party some pain. Either that, or use your SA+WS to end of the critter's life.

* * *

Put it another way: On Qufim Island, every single good DD THF I've met used sword. Native weapon or not, sword works, and works very well for those levels. (Heck, the best ones almost came close to my DRG's output. )

[Malacite]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Heck, the best ones almost came close to my DRG's output. )

> . > you musta been doing something wrong there. I was a total BEAST when I leveled my DRG (but then I make my own HQ meat and go nuts for attack up)


Also @711: I said I kept them separate. Wasp sting + SA did enough damage I found on their own without combining them. I really don't see SA + Fast Blade being all that worth it, at least not for the hate spike. Most times I'd do maybe 40-60 more points of damage at most over just normal Fast Blade. by keeping them separate I gained more TP too (though to be fair, it does guarantee at least 1 hit will land so it's a toss up I suppose)

[Nuriko]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Sword if I remember correctly on THF goes up by about 2 per level for THF since it's a D ranked skill.

So by level 20, you'll have 42 base attack, give or take a few points (my math might be off a little assuming you gain 3 and not 2 points for a few of the early levels, but I'm sure you don't)

Actually, a D ranked skill is at 55 at level 20 ... an A- skill (dagger) is at 63. At level 25, they are 68 and 78 respectively ... and just because I'm bored, they're 20 apart at 57 (168 vs. 188), 31 apart at 65 (192 vs. 223), 40 apart at 69 (199 vs. 239), and 59 apart by level 75 (210 vs. 269)

Skill just isn't the largest consideration right at first, though a few extra points are always nice to have.

[hongman]

Re: Tips for upcoming THF

Ok, I'll wrpa this up with my in-game experience which was perfect for this thread. I aim to insult noone. THese are the facts.

PLD THF THF BLM WHM WHM

I was one THF, Sword, Rice Dumps. Other THF was Dagger, Meat Kabobs.

I can only comment on my acc not his. It was fine. He hit a lot for 0. No access to Acids yet. Even with SG up, I would get some dmg through. I owned his SA Wasp Sting to no end. I mean, really, double at least.

Moving onto Pugs. Again, same story. I had Acids, but they didnt land all that well, especially when I needed them to (lol...) but I still owned his ass with SA FastBlade. It was just lolWaspSting all over.