Need some THF help...

[Gman]

Hello everyone...
I've come here seeking advice about THF in general, and I was hoping to get some battle tips from some of the vets. I've played RDM and BST to 75, but this is my first melee in a party situation past 37. Currently my THF is 47.

My first question is regarding SATA damage. Straight SATA damage (not using ws) varies so much it's confusing. On a typical exp. mob, sometimes I may get off a 175, and sometimes my damage goes up over 300, but rarely. Usually it's in the 220-260 range. First, does anyone know what causes these gigantic fluctuations, and what can I do to make them stronger? I've partied with other THFs doing 300-400 on SATA alone, without WS.

I think a THF's gear can be different for everyone depending on budget and style, so I'm not too concerned about my gear choice, but I'll list it for reference. I've been subbing only ninja (*listens to the boos*) so that has to be taken into consideration...
Weapons: Bone Knife+1, Marauder's Knife (will change to Hornetneedle at 48) Thug's Zamburak, various bolts.
Armor: Emp pin, Spike Necklace, 2x Drones, Brigandine, Taru RSE mitts (+3 STR), Rajas, Snipers, Nomad, Swordbelt+1, Noct Brais+1, Noct gaiters+1
I think my STR is +14 with Sole Sushi, and DEX is like +23? AGI is +13-ish.

Anyway, on to the next question. Actually, this is more of a tip I was looking for, and it is what is the best use of SATA? At level 47, of course I'm still using Viper Bite, so should I continue doing that WS, with SATA? I know some thfs seperate TA and SA to get more damage, but should I worry about that now, or wait until I get Dancing Edge or Shark Bite? Regardless, how does a typical battle go when you seperate them?

I can't really think of anything else, but I'm definitely open to helpful tips if you have any. I guess I'm doing a pretty good job as a THF right now, but there's certainly room for improvement. One of the things that bugs me is that SATA cool down. Sometimes I find myself doing SATA right at the end of a fight, then I have to wait 40 secs to pull the next mob while it cools down, so I can start next fight with a SATA again. Anyone else have this problem or is my timing just bad?
Thanks in advance guys.

[Zempten]

Re: Need some THF help...

Regarding your first question, I believe the fluctuation is due to the fact that TA is not guarenteed. Wait till Assassin and it should stablizie.

As for your second question, most THFs never split SA and TA until they have recieved Asassin - not really WS dependant. Even then it is completely dependant on how your PT performs. This will probably take time for you to experience yourself. Typically in PLD type PTs I usually split them because PLDs always keep hate rather then giving me a chance to just SATA them. Where as NIN PTs, I pre-charge TA so that my TA is ready again with SA just incase we need to SC in the beginning - however this usually becomes a case of just SATA onto the NIN.

As for your finally paragraph, I believe you should learn to fit in either pre-charging SA, TA, or both. You'll learn from experience, but one thing you should keep in mind is to make sure that you know your SATA will be ready for the SC. Nothing is worse then your PT waiting for your SATA to be ready. Again, this will only come after you play around a bit and learn for yourself. The main goal of mine is to fire off SA, TA, or both everytime the one minute mark hits to maximize my damage.

[Maju]

Re: Need some THF help...

Regarding your first question, I believe the fluctuation is due to the fact that TA is not guarenteed. Wait till Assassin and it should stablizie.

TA is always guaranteed if stacked on top of SA. Splitting TA and SA is not wise until L60 when you get the Assassin trait that makes TA a guaranteed crit (and hit).

Past L60, SA and TA separately will deal higher total damage but stacking them both with a WS gives higher WS damage and thus higher SC bonus damage.

The damage volatility for SATA you talk about probably comes from a lack of attack. The only way to fix it is to sub WAR or eat meat instead of sushi. Viper Bite doubles your attack anyway, so sushi will probably result in better overall damage no matter what until you get Dancing Edge.

[Gman]

Re: Need some THF help...

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll just keep going and figure the rest out on my own.

[Lmnop]

Re: Need some THF help...

put equip swaps in your SA macro >.>

+agi earrings don't help your standard melee and +accuracy doesn't help your SA (100% accurate already).

[Spax]

Re: Need some THF help...

First of all I just want to say that I'm farly new. So if my question is stupid, forgive me please

as for my question.

If I pick Monk or Ninja for a subclass, will my thief attack with just 1 hand or will it attack with both hands? cause Ive read somewhere that if the main dont fit with the main, it will just attack with the mainhand.

Thanks.
-Spax

[Neppy]

Re: Need some THF help...

put equip swaps in your SA macro >.>

+agi earrings don't help your standard melee and +accuracy doesn't help your SA (100% accurate already).

at that level there isnt any dex earrings unless you want to dish out a ton on intruders and if they are using bone knife and sword belt they already have plenty of +attack, the only item i would swap in at that level would be life belt for tp gain.

[Lmnop]

Re: Need some THF help...

Spax, by subbing nin (thf 20/ nin 10 and above), you can offhand another weapon and then you will swing twice/round but at a slower rate. If you equip a "Hand-to-hand" type weapon, you attack twice with the big delay in between, so it works out very similar to dual wield. If you sub MNK, you get a job trait called "Martial Arts" that somewhat lowers the delay between swings with HtH equipped.

I think what you're asking is if you can make it so you hit someone with a dagger in your main hand and then jack them in the face with your offhand. Unfortunately, you cannot do this.

Good luck with THF =) btw, thf/mnk with Sneak Attack + Combo is incredible all the way to 30. Though this can be dangerous to your skills because you'll want to keep dagger at least somewhat leveled so you can have Viper Bite at level 33.

at that level there isnt any dex earrings unless you want to dish out a ton on intruders and if they are using bone knife and sword belt they already have plenty of +attack, the only item i would swap in at that level would be life belt for tp gain.

AGI+6 does nothing for your standard melee. you can never feasibly get too much attack. Especially pre-bone knife. I'm looking at the first 50ish levels here, and I say attack+6 will help you acc-overloaded THFs hit above 0. But if you want to look at Bone Knives, then I can turn around and look at level 55 where suddenly, you have a swordbelt in your ears. attack+10 is wonderful for dagger swings. If a THF wants to ignore their dagger-damage between SATAs, I might as well invite ... any other job with an A-rank melee skill.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Need some THF help...

Yeah, the earrings only help TA for THF. I'd suggest swapping them in for TA only, and using Beetle +1 for standard melee.

I can't speak to the low attack problem since I've been eating meat my whole time as THF, pretty much (on Dhalmel Stew ATM). I will say though that in my experience the main sources of straight SATA damage variance is one of two things:

1) TA misses. Trick Attack has an extremely narrow margin of viability, if you're just a little off from directly between a party member and the mob, TA will generally fail entirely, not only giving you the hate, but robbing you of (at my level) around 120 dmg.

2) SA dilution. Sneak Attack is much more forgiving than Trick Attack, but if you're not precisely behind the mob, you will lose some SA damage. This varies depending on how far off you are.

[Spax]

Re: Need some THF help...

[quote=Lmnop;646543]Spax, by subbing nin (thf 20/ nin 10 and above), you can offhand another weapon and then you will swing twice/round but at a slower rate. If you equip a "Hand-to-hand" type weapon, you attack twice with the big delay in between, so it works out very similar to dual wield. If you sub MNK, you get a job trait called "Martial Arts" that somewhat lowers the delay between swings with HtH equipped.

I think what you're asking is if you can make it so you hit someone with a dagger in your main hand and then jack them in the face with your offhand. Unfortunately, you cannot do this.

Good luck with THF =) btw, thf/mnk with Sneak Attack + Combo is incredible all the way to 30. Though this can be dangerous to your skills because you'll want to keep dagger at least somewhat leveled so you can have Viper Bite at level 33.


I'm soo looking forward to lvl my thief higher. I just wanted to know if h2h or duel weild didnt work. like, if I had equipped like 2 daggers, he would only attack with the one in mainhand and similar with h2h weapons, but since it works I'm overexcited. ^___^'
Another question, though not for thiefs, but.. can I really get a sub job before I turn lvl 18? o_o; I read that I couldnt untillvl 18. if I can, how?

[Maju]

Re: Need some THF help...

Another question, though not for thiefs, but.. can I really get a sub job before I turn lvl 18? o_o; I read that I couldnt untillvl 18. if I can, how?

You can't get the sub job quest until L18.

Oh and I'll take that comment about dealing better damage with sushi thanks to Viper Bite back. I've recently leveled my NIN from 1-47 and I can say that meat (dhalmel steak right now) completely blows sushi away even when nearing L50 and and there is no way the slight accuracy bonus from sushi can make up for it even with the attack bonus from Viper Bite.

In Altepa I was hitting beetles for 20+ every swing while the other NINs, who all ate sushi, of course, struggled to break 10. My accuracy wasn't noticeably worse either.

The same happened again against hornflies and soldier crawlers in CN. My hits were constantly dealing over twice the damage of the sushi eating NIN and his accuracy was only slightly better. WS showed an even larger difference. I think his Retsu capped out at around 100 damage while I broke 250.

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: Need some THF help...

My first question is regarding SATA damage. Straight SATA damage (not using ws) varies so much it's confusing. On a typical exp. mob, sometimes I may get off a 175, and sometimes my damage goes up over 300, but rarely. Usually it's in the 220-260 range. First, does anyone know what causes these gigantic fluctuations, and what can I do to make them stronger? I've partied with other THFs doing 300-400 on SATA alone, without WS.

This is true; I was dishing out 350 average with just SATA alone as a Galka THF @ 47. I didn't have Emp. Hairpin either. So something's probably up with your gear setup; TaruTaru Thief has MUCH more potential than Galka Thief stat wise.

I think a THF's gear can be different for everyone depending on budget and style, so I'm not too concerned about my gear choice, but I'll list it for reference. I've been subbing only ninja (*listens to the boos*) so that has to be taken into consideration...
Weapons: Bone Knife+1, Marauder's Knife (will change to Hornetneedle at 48) Thug's Zamburak, various bolts.
Armor: Emp pin, Spike Necklace, 2x Drones, Brigandine, Taru RSE mitts (+3 STR), Rajas, Snipers, Nomad, Swordbelt+1, Noct Brais+1, Noct gaiters+1
I think my STR is +14 with Sole Sushi, and DEX is like +23? AGI is +13-ish.

Nice setup. But I think I'm seeing the difference in the Sushi; It seems like you have enough gear to do solid damage as a thief. But remember that SA and TA for THF main means that your multiplier is directly attributed to your DEX stat and your AGI stat.
Squid Suishi gives bonus to DEX and AGI, and a + to HP MAX as well as ACC and R.ACC by +15%. I would definitely recommend eating it if you can besides Sole Sushi (It should be MUCH cheaper too, btw). Also. You might want to consider carrying gear that is +DEX or +AGI to sub whenever you land a SATA WS; Since Viperbite only doubles your damage output, you won't need all the ACC since it's not a multihit. I would personally make macros -- One for TP gain and DoT, and one for SATA. It's slightly tedious at times, but the results are very very pleasing.

Also

If you feel confident enough to where you can pull things without need of Utsusemi(and if your party doesn't have any huge problem with it), I would recommend you try THF/WAR just for the Berserk skill. That'll also add a nice increase to your damage output as well as your SATA/WS.

Anyway, on to the next question. Actually, this is more of a tip I was looking for, and it is what is the best use of SATA? At level 47, of course I'm still using Viper Bite, so should I continue doing that WS, with SATA? I know some thfs seperate TA and SA to get more damage, but should I worry about that now, or wait until I get Dancing Edge or Shark Bite? Regardless, how does a typical battle go when you seperate them?

You'll stick with VB until ...what...LV 55-60? (I can't remember when you get Dancing Edge). And even when you do get Dancing Edge, some people like the results of VB because it gives a slightly higher Damage output. You can attempt to separate SA WS and TA WS if you're TPing around 30-40 seconds, but you probably won't love it truly until you get LV 60 Assassin job trait, which basically turns TA into SA when used by itself.

I can't really think of anything else, but I'm definitely open to helpful tips if you have any. I guess I'm doing a pretty good job as a THF right now, but there's certainly room for improvement. One of the things that bugs me is that SATA cool down. Sometimes I find myself doing SATA right at the end of a fight, then I have to wait 40 secs to pull the next mob while it cools down, so I can start next fight with a SATA again. Anyone else have this problem or is my timing just bad?
Thanks in advance guys.

Preload SATA when you can. If you use it wisely, you can hit SATA and have it ready at a lower recharge rate. Don't gimp the EXP chain because you don't have SATA ready to go. Since the mob is pretty much dead, you should preload, and fish another if your party's doing well.

Also. Acid bolts are your friends forever. Defense down = Better DoT and SATA WS damage.


Good luck with your thief

[Khevn]

Re: Need some THF help...

God, i hate when i get into party with a thief that doesn't use acid bolts -.-

[Neppy]

Re: Need some THF help...

Just wanted to post my gear setup and ask for advice.

57 THF
Gear for TP gain
Main: Corsair's Knife Off: Hornetneedle
Head: Emp Hair
Neck: spike necklace
Ear1: +3 attack <cant remember name offhand>
Ear2; +3 Attack <same>
Body: Scorp Harn
Hands: THF AF hands
Ring1: Marksman ring +6 rACC
Ring2: Deft+1
Back: Nomads Mantle
Waist: Life belt
Legs: THF AF legs
Feet: Bound boots
Ranged: Thug's XXXX w/ acid bolts

SATA WS gear
I'm only gonna put in what i change
Body: Bringandine+1
Ear1: +3 AGI forget name right now
EAR2: Harvest Earring
Ring1: Deft+1
Legs: Noct brais+1
Waist: Sword Belt

Now if I eat squid sushi my SATA dex is like +31 and my AGI is like +20something, I was usually doin 450-550 SATA alone and 700-830 SATAVB. Please dont tell me to sub /WAR im not going to, end of story. I just wanna know any gear suggestions, and with the amount of DEX and AGI I already am using for SATA/WS w/o food any recommendations would be nice for a better food possibility. Thnx

[711rocks]

Re: Need some THF help...

Just wanted to post my gear setup and ask for advice.
57 THF
Gear for TP gain
Main: Corsair's Knife Off: Hornetneedle
Head: Emp Hair
Neck: spike necklace
Ear1: +3 attack <cant remember name offhand>
Ear2; +3 Attack <same>
Body: Scorp Harn
Hands: THF AF hands
Ring1: Marksman ring +6 rACC
Ring2: Deft+1
Back: Nomads Mantle
Waist: Life belt
Legs: THF AF legs
Feet: Bound boots
Ranged: Thug's XXXX w/ acid bolts
SATA WS gear
I'm only gonna put in what i change
Body: Bringandine+1
Ear1: +3 AGI forget name right now
EAR2: Harvest Earring
Ring1: Deft+1
Legs: Noct brais+1
Waist: Sword Belt
Now if I eat squid sushi my SATA dex is like +31 and my AGI is like +20something, I was usually doin 450-550 SATA alone and 700-830 SATAVB. Please dont tell me to sub /WAR im not going to, end of story. I just wanna know any gear suggestions, and with the amount of DEX and AGI I already am using for SATA/WS w/o food any recommendations would be nice for a better food possibility. Thnx

Hands and feet grab battle gloves or jaridah/akinji for 4-5 more acc for tp. Snipers rings and bravos if you feel like dishing out the cash.

About that /war bit, do you not want to be told to use it because you have and it sucked or because you don't have it leveled and don't want to take the time to do so? >.>
/war does make a difference.

Foodwise I always 'd (and still do) att+ > sushi cause I have acc whore gear. @57 I usually used yellow curry, are there any real meat dishes better for that level? I found it was always better than chiefkabobs, which is what everyone else used. I switched to red curry when I got to 68 with harpe, nice upgrade in damage there \o/