New Thief

[DakAttack]

Re: New Thief

Make sure you keep dagger leveled, too many thieves seem to neglect it and too many people just shout about swords. At about 25 you'll begin to realize how much the skill difference is hurting you if you're still using a sword. At that point Shadowstitch will be just as good as Fast Blade if not better.

[Tokitoki]

Re: New Thief

Shadowstitch doesnt offer much as far as damage goes. It also has a CHR modifier which doesnt offer anything either. Fast Blade has both a STR and a DEX modifier to help up the damage.

The only benefit I found to Shadowstitch was that it could end Fragmentation.

[Rph]

Re: New Thief

Okay, there needs to be some clarification.

/WAR 1-23 and /NIN 24-75 are indeed subs that most people would call "cookie-cutter". However, they became that way because they were so effective that pretty much everyone started to use them.

/WAR 1-23 offers Provoke and Physical Defense Bonus. 24-75 it offers Berserk, Defender, Warcry, Double Attack, Attack Bonus, and (of course) Resist Virus I and II. It is a viable sub until endgame regardless of the fact that it is neglected by most THFs. You must understand, however, that it won't help you as a puller.

/NIN 1-23 offers Stealth, Dual Wield, and (sigh) Resist Bind. 24-75 it offers Subtle Blow, Resist Bind II, Dual Wield II...but also Utsusemi: Ichi, Utsusemi: Ni, and Tonko. Utsusemi makes this a good sub. Because THF has no attack bonus and has relatively low STR as well as an A- in Dagger, it's clear they can do very good damage without the typical stats that are stacked with DDs. This is largely because of the fact that a) Dagger gets some very good weapon skill mods; and b) SATA is basically like a "DEX_100%, AGI_100%" secondary mod on every SATA'ed hit. This being said, you don't need to rely on a /WAR do help your damage; you can sub NIN for extra protection, especially on the pull. A+ Evasion and shadows for hits you don't dodge makes you very difficult to hit. Also, Dual Wield II is like a perma-Haste, which is nice for your already quick daggers.


/MNK is viable in very early levels (Valkurm Dunes) because at that level Boost+SA+Combo is insane, and if you're going to be using your E-skilled Hand-to-hand, you at least want to be attacking quickly, and Martial Arts I at lv1 MNK helps quite a bit. Base H2H delay is 480; with Martial Arts I it drops to 400

/DRG is viable 20-24 because you get an early Attack Bonus trait before the other subs really offer you much.

/RNG used to be situational, but since the ranged attack adjustment its value has dropped.

/BRD is never viable.

Please understand that using a never-used subjob is not being creative for the most part. People have tried it and it's pretty much always failed. You're just walking in their ill-trodden footsteps. If you want to try it, by all means go ahead, but don't avert yourself from going THF/NIN just because most people do it. Again, it is the most used because it has proved to be the most effective.

I hear you out. I understand the reasoning behind popular subjobs. Its not because people like to jump the bandwagon, its because they work. And I did read the post about sub-jobs, and I think subbing bard would be great for parties without them, also soloing. And refering to Subs being "gear" that you switch on depending on the party, I think i will level up the others as well. I will try classes out to see which siuts me best. Missing is a pain and doing next to no dmg is frustrating as well.

[Narutard]

Re: New Thief

well, just saying /bard is not viable is kinda harsh.. but it's mostly true..
mainly because you can only sing one song, and for the song that you sing, you get close to only half the effect.

except for paeon, which i believe is still the same hp/regen over time.
but the attack bonus/defense bonus/ accuracy bonus, etc... not very effective...
the attack/defense bonuses from subbing warrior is more effective, and the tp gain from dual wield from subbing ninja is more effective....

granted you do get 1 song for the entire party, people generally don't care, because they would rather invite a bard to the party to fully boost the party, instead of a thf/brd that doesnt do the full potential damage..

but otherwise, i can see why you would want to sub /brd... it IS helpful even though only a little bit..
and it will be tough getting invites, so try to learn to make your own parties.
keep your marksmanship leveled up(if possible it's kinda expensive to start out leveling marksmanship) so you can use status bolts to debuff the mobs..

but good luck to ya. keep posted i'd like to see how /brd works out for ya.

[DakAttack]

Re: New Thief

Shadowstitch doesnt offer much as far as damage goes. It also has a CHR modifier which doesnt offer anything either. Fast Blade has both a STR and a DEX modifier to help up the damage.

The only benefit I found to Shadowstitch was that it could end Fragmentation.

It offers just as much as Fast Blade past 25.

[Hearshot]

Re: New Thief

*DING page2 ftw.

So far as i'm lvling thf, the most useful subs i've used are WAR and NIN. Keep in mind, almost every party will have you pull. If you have a raptor on your ass, he's gonna rip you up, subbing NIN in this situation is best. Subbing war and using Berserk raises your attack greatly, only makes you stronger than nin sub. But make sure you are pulling slow mobs from far away, no need to waste WHM mp on your return to camp.

Soloing should always be NIN. THF has a heightened evasion skill and you'll only benefit more from using shadows. Keep Marksmanship capped always Bloody bolts are necessary and landing Acid Bolt can be the difference in hundreds of WS DMG points (not to mention beating your RDM/BRD to dispel on crawlers)

I haven't found any other subs to be as beneficial as war and nin subs.

[Rph]

Re: New Thief

I got a whiles before lvl 30, so Ill just enjoy being a Thief until then, which that person was correct, Sneak attack made me love being a thief 2 fold.

[Fhaddad187]

Re: New Thief

I got a level 18 thief and i have warrior for subjob for it

[Narutard]

Re: New Thief

I got a level 18 thief and i have warrior for subjob for it

cool..how do you like it so far?

[Rph]

Re: New Thief

Leveling a warrior subjob after having a sword thief is really quick. Hit 3 levels in an hour span. Going to reach lvl 10 and then get back to my beloved thief. Dunes is at the point where getting 100+xp a mob is rare...

[Narutard]

Re: New Thief

should just got to 18 for warrior..

[Tokitoki]

Re: New Thief

Or at least 15 before you leave for Qufim, because after that you wont want to go back to the dunes.

[Hearshot]

Re: New Thief

Or at least 15 before you leave for Qufim, because after that you wont want to go back to the dunes.

Very true. and No one will want to invite you if you have underlvl'd sub. no matter how irrelevant it is on your performance.

[Rph]

Re: New Thief

Very true. and No one will want to invite you if you have underlvl'd sub. no matter how irrelevant it is on your performance.

Really? Wow? Im looking at the skill charts for the warrior, and the next ability or trait is both at 15. And since your sub needs to be half, the only time I will be able to use those traits is at lvl 30 THF. By then I will have started to get an advanced subjob. I dont like warrior really... Only doing it because its the easiest sub to level with my THF being using a sword. It just seems pointless to have a lvl 22THF with a lvl 11 Warrior subjob, you really dont get anything... or am i mistaken?

[Hearshot]

Re: New Thief

Really? Wow? Im looking at the skill charts for the warrior, and the next ability or trait is both at 15. And since your sub needs to be half, the only time I will be able to use those traits is at lvl 30 THF. By then I will have started to get an advanced subjob. I dont like warrior really... Only doing it because its the easiest sub to level with my THF being using a sword. It just seems pointless to have a lvl 22THF with a lvl 11 Warrior subjob, you really dont get anything... or am i mistaken?

you're right, 11warrior will not give you much advantage over any less lvl of a sub as a 22thf. But you see, when people are looking for members for a pt, they more often than not pick people with higher Rank and/or job combos that have legitimate sub lvl. Your sub lvl and rank are basically the only things that reflect whether or not you can do your job.. without a person actually knowing you. Of course these things don't define it, but its sometimes the only thing party leaders look at.

This trend becomes even more important as you lvl later on so its best to keep it consistent as you are beginning.


I can definately understand the point of view of it not being necessary to keep a lvld sub since you are only looking for lvl30, but many party leaders don't care why you are lvling a job, just that you are lvling it and they hope you do your job to the best of your ability for their PT.

So what do you plan on doing as your advanced job? or have you not chosen yet? No real reason to choose, you can bounce around from job to job till you find one yuo like lol. But keep in mind as well, some of the advanced jobs require a lvl'd war, nin, or thf sub available as you lvl later on.

If you stick with the simple rule of keeping a lvl'd sub, you shouldn't have any problems finding a PT.(don't forget missions, you'll love airships at rank5)