Is THF useless?

[Lmnop]

Re: Is THF useless?

It's true, to an extent. The problem is -- and I think you made an allusion to this -- is what other people think. It's true that a lot of people often prefer other jobs. And it's true that a lot of people think that their Dmg abilities fall off. In all honesty, I think the worst levels for a THF, most people don't know about. From 30 and into the 40s, a War/thf with sturmwind will deal damage that will never surpass SATA VB, but come close, in addtion to dealing better DoT. The downside is that War/thf gets hammered, as Kuu and other advocates of mp conservation will point out. But even despite that, I think these are the levels that give THF main a hard time because there's another job that's pretty much guarenteed to deal more damage than them in this level range. The advantage to THF's situation: war/thf is a dead breed. /nin or bust (mwuahahaa silly warriors).

Aside from the 1% of the population in those levels that are war/thf, Thf/xxx always has the potential to ride the top. As of 60+, I have not worked with any thieves that I could say were truely amazing. My Rampages were roughly the same as SATADE (less consistent) and my DoT is still the top, it's true. But like the Dragoon, I'm not planting hate on someone with those Rampages. I don't have flee for pulling in that one extra chain (used best on the way out of camp, I've found. Not after grabbing the pull), and my acid bolts have a much lower chance of landing (lower skill and less availability to R.acc equip. Oh, and about 20 lower natural AGI). But like I said, none of those thieves were by any means great. It didn't even look like they were equip swapping (I think a lot of thieves on these boards should realize the gravity of that).

Even if thieves are 90% of my damage in the low 60s, I'm betting when I get to 68 and start seeing the upward curve of dagger damage, that won't be an issue. Now go to what Net.Drifter said about fighting birds (which everyone seems to be tp burning these days -- WITHOUT THIEVES!) and you're looking at a job that may just be complete... maybe. I don't know, I need to invite some more thieves for testing... ramble...

[Ryddr]

Re: Is THF useless?

I just want to ask you Ryddr...

Your entire post wreaks of your unnecessary want to prove me wrong in every way possible. Though after reading it I can tell that you simply misunderstood what I was saying as Lmnop pointed out a couple posts later.

The SS you linked only served to further prove my point that Thf's only true DD quality is our WS. DoT is not and doubtfully every will be one of Thf's strong points. Even with the recent adjustment to many daggers' DMG, we still see most of the difference in our WS. I've never fought Tiamat...I must assume those are good numbers against him. I've dropped higher numbers on IT with matching Light SC. A total of 2500+ ending the SC.

Thief isn't normally a DD job...I stand by this statement. We're just classified as DD for lack of a better term, but clearly we don't fit the DD mold. DD jobs have high DoT and fairly high WSs. Thf lacks DoT tremendously in comparison, but our WSs can be much more powerful, but still not enough to outdamage the DD's consistant assault. Especially in a long fight. Maybe if we had full tp every 30sec... I guess with enough haste or /sam, it could be possible.

...

what are you being asked to land poison bolts on endgame? Poison bolts from THF dont even begin to compare to Bio II (or III), Poison II... etc. Also, for a THF to even land a bolt on something that requires more than 6 people to take down is an accomplishment in itself without bringing every type of RNG ACC gear you can find and eating sushi. Who would ask a THF to do something that a RNG would do 10x better...

This is where you misunderstood, and thankfully it has already been clarified.

I think he meant more of a break-down of what DoT is. "You know, like Poison? gradually lowering HP by small amounts?"

On a completely unrelated note:

As a 75 Thf with capped marksmanship and squid sushi, I can land acid bolts (which are the only ones I use in exp) on IT mobs with a probability higher than 50%. Also, because I only care about the def down effect and not the dmg, I take the shot from point blank range, which in turn increases my ranged accuracy. I land about 70% of my shots, I wouldn't have mentioned it before if I couldn't use it effectively.

Last, the WS every 50 seconds is not true either. A good THF splits SA & TA for use. Most THFs know this and with the right setup have TP ready when their respective timers for SA/TA are ready.

Yea, good point.

[Hilde]

Re: Is THF useless?

Only trouble I have had, is that the nuimber of THF's at low levels is in decline so I had a bit of a learning curve for SATA. That and some of the THF at lvl 50 or higher still haven't grasped how SATA works.

I like working with a good THF, especially when they have SATA timed well. keeps me from having to fire off every JA I have to keep a mob from going after a overzealous DD.

[levish]

Re: Is THF useless?

still getting good invite rates at 50+

<.<

and for those dry spots i can solo =P

[Omni]

Re: Is THF useless?

No other job can drop the giant numbers thf do and never become the target of the mob's attention.

what about, drk/thf and fuidama spinslash? or sam/thf and fuidama tachi gekko? or mnk/thf with dragonkick? war/thf with steel cyclone? drg/thf with wheeling thrust? all can drop big numbers.

the only thing is that, this is only viable from 60+ for other jobs, while thf have been doing it for past 30 levels.

taru edit: i voted that thf is amazing. fun job and over looked way too often. many people dont realize that from 33 - 65, thf might very well be the undisputed king of closing a renkei. other jobs finally catch up after 65.

[Dagon]

Re: Is THF useless?

Well thats good, but I still think the best way to use a THF is to use him or her in a party of buddys!

[Melita]

Re: Is THF useless?

I think THF is a little underated. Generally making a pt (lvl 30 or under) thf is a second choice to me. They become a lot more usefull further in the game though. OK dd in the beggining of the game.

[Lmnop]

Re: Is THF useless?

actually, 15-30 were my favorite levels. With a good skillchain, monsters die very quickly. In Qufim, doing 150 dmg + 70 distortion + MB is very nice. It's been a long time so I don't remember exact numbers, but half of a mob's health or so when the SC lands good.

[Hearshot]

Re: Is THF useless?

While LFG as 69thf last night, there were 9 people with flag up, 69-71.

1SMN, 8THF.

Majority were JP, i had a better chance of getting xp soloing 2k/hour on colibri outside.....

Lvling thf was alot more fun 30-68ish, now i just want 75 asap.

[raidenn]

Re: Is THF useless?

actually, 15-30 were my favorite levels. With a good skillchain, monsters die very quickly. In Qufim, doing 150 dmg + 70 distortion + MB is very nice. It's been a long time so I don't remember exact numbers, but half of a mob's health or so when the SC lands good.

What weapon? Did you take any food? I was doing at best 110 with sword.

[Lmnop]

Re: Is THF useless?

Most of my Qufim levels were thf/nin with sword main/dagger offhand. Elvaan, best gear possible except the big 2 (hairpin and boots, though I did pick up a hairpin @30), and ... lots of different food. I'm a big meat fan, I was likely using Meat Jerky or Rice Dumplings.

also:

It's been a long time so I don't remember exact numbers...

so don't hold me accountable if it's not completely accurate. I do believe, however, that my absolute highest Fast Blade was somewhere in the 160s.

[Omniblast]

Re: Is THF useless?

I owe my YinYang Robe to our residential jack of all trades, thief with th3. With our thief's help in the LS we've gotten 4/5 YinYang robes in the past few days. Much love to our thiefs in Ambition.

If you plan on leveling thief all the way, I suggest you tag your butt behind a ninja and form a static party. That way you will be able to get parties at a set time and wait for people that are willing to play instead of waiting for parties and not getting invites. You will need to do a lot of farming help for people so that they will remember you and get invited to parties more as well.

There is a dry spell for thiefs getting invites from 70-75, and from previous posts it seems like there are dry spells for invites even earlier than that.

[Zempten]

Re: Is THF useless?

The dry spell starts when DRKs get Spinning Slash *sniffles* No idea when it's starts now with BLU in the mix

[Fortressx]

Re: Is THF useless?

First off THF is not useless... im a 45 THF myself... I Love the job and i know ppl at higher lvls that have shown my why thf is absolutely amazing.... we get Bi**hed at alot because we aren't doing something right... I would like to see some of you raise a thf... I bet you wouldn't be able to pull then SATA... THF is probably one of the hardest jobs to lvl in the game aside from mages... and mages have my respect.....

[Lmnop]

Re: Is THF useless?

>.>

I think thf is harder than pretty much all mage jobs, but I may be mistaken. I've never actually leveled RDM in refresh levels, but from watching my brother do it, I don't think it'd be too bad. Whm is just staying on your toes and remembering what to do when, and Brd is more of a battle against your own attention span than against any IT++ mob.