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  • THF and Promyvion

    "Thief is useless in Promyvion. I'm sorry."

    This was the main reply that I got when asking an old linkshell if I could tag along for the missions. Ok. No big deal. That can be understandable in a sense that my job isn't a suitable fit for these kinds of missions. So I decided to be the team player and hop along as the good ol' faithful WAR/NIN. Me being a natural born tanker - I have no problems fitting into my role.

    Surprisingly enough, Even with 2x WAR/NIN, SMN, WHM, RNG, and BLM, we still wiped in Promyvion Dem at the NM of the area. This is after EVERYONE used their 2-hours. A sad shame that the SMN's two hour missed because the NM moved out of range. Too bad the WAR/NIN couldn't keep hate off the other team mates. Too bad everyone ignored the spawns the NM was laying that went after our mages. Too bad no one came with any Ethers or Potions. Too bad our leader thought that only 3 anima would have been sufficient enough for us to succeed a promyvion.

    And you know what, this setup isn't a bad setup, honestly. If everyone knows exactly what they're doing, You should be able to do this without any trouble with only 3 animas. It's that simple. I honestly felt that if I could stick hate onto the WAR/NIN, things would have went alot smoother. That if we actually had a very awesome SC to make while keeping hate directed onto one tank, that we could have very well handled had the BLM MBed, or the SMN MBed with his two hour.

    The only factor that I saw in this case that caused us to wipe was an ill strategy and a lack of preparation.


    ...Which brings me to my point. Why the heck do people think that THF isn't useful in Promyvion?
    We don't seem to be great at much of anything when it comes to mission runs and parties, because players assume that we can be 'easily replaced'. Yes, Please underrate us in this series of missions as well, as though we already haven't been underrated enough.

    Please help me to understand why this is so. List your complaints or successes; I'd like to know each and every single one that you have against inviting a THF into Promyvion,or the reason that you saw it fit to invite a THF into promyvion. Not to be arguementive at all, but rather to understand why the heck PTs overlook such a useful VIP when it comes to things such as Promyvion?

    For those of you who have actually completed Promyvion with THF, raise your hand and explain the reason that you were able to accomplish it. It would mean a great deal.
    "Vacation. Alienation. Japanamation. Manga. Kanga. Naked Lunch. Hawaiian punch!!"



  • #2
    Re: THF and Promyvion

    There are a lot of "(Job here) is useless in (quest/bcnm here)" sentimate with some(not all) people in FFXI. With planning most jobs fit fine into most missions.
    I run into it a lot as a Bard, we would love for you to exp with us but your not good for missions unless the monster needs to be slept.

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    • #3
      Re: THF and Promyvion

      Can I blame people on my server for being extremely shallow then?

      I wanted a PLD and a BRD in Promyvion. >:/
      "Vacation. Alienation. Japanamation. Manga. Kanga. Naked Lunch. Hawaiian punch!!"


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      • #4
        Re: THF and Promyvion

        Eh... every mission in Chains of Promathia is allergic to at least a few jobs. Even traditionally "good" jobs like Bard and Summoner are weak in some battles...

        Even so, Thief definitely struggles in most CoP battles, since so many of them are speed-damage tests of strength, and thieves have trouble dealing big bursts of damage.

        With that said, Promyvion-Dem is by far the easiest of the three basic Promyvions. The basic strategy is "kill it fast once it starts spawning babies". The more time you give it to spawn Offspring, the harder it gets to stay alive. Your problem in this case wasn't your party configuration (which was perfectly fine), but your tactics.

        By your description it sounds like you tried to kite the NM at the end of Pro-Dem. This is a mistake - this boss needs to be straight tanked, preferably with Hi-potions on the tanks as backup for use in between casts of Utsusemi. As I recall, this NM has no AoE attacks of note; kiting shouldn't really be necessary at all with 2 blinktanks. Once you see the first Offspring show up, that's the time to pour on the damage with Mighty Strikes, Astral Flow, etc.


        Icemage

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        • #5
          Re: THF and Promyvion

          If it's any consolation, I'd be happy to have a THF along who knew what they were doing on any of the first three promyvions. Two of my friends and I had a bear of a time getting through them for a while because everyone insisted on throwing a bunch of RNG and SMN at it, when we were certain that it wasn't necessary (and it really wasn't).

          Dem really is the easist of the three, although Mea isn't bad either, if you have a PLD tank instead of a WAR/NIN. (Near the end when it starts spamming AOE, the PLD just invincibles, and the WHM can heal heal heal, bene, etc. to their hearts content in order to keep everyone alive). But really, a THF (especially with NIN sub) shouldn't really have any trouble at all in there. True, their two hour doesn't really have much to offer the team in the form of a sudden burst of damage, but then again, I kind of like a strategy that doesn't force us to wait two hours between every promy run.

          If I were any higher, I'd get together with you ASAP (we're both on Bahamut) and get this done for you. As it is, I hope you have better luck in the near future!

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          • #6
            Re: THF and Promyvion

            Sorry to hear you have had problems >.>

            I have no problem inviting a THF to a CoP run though, in fact, now you mention it I have never turned down a THF just because they are a THF. (Except when I am searching for a specific job type and they ask anyway).

            Almost every single one of my CoP mission have been pickup parties, so you cant really be too fussy, if a THF is the first to ask to join, they are in. I have had plenty of THFs amongst my members.

            Every job can succeed in CoP a long as the people behind the characters understand how to work together and how to play their roles well. THF is no different to any other job in that regard.

            The best solution is to start your own parties to do CoP, that way you will alway have a THF in your party.

            Edit >> Just noticed I have 666 gil. \o.O/
            - Never Underestimate The Power Of A Duck!
            Dux Dux, Lallafel, Odin
            My Profile On Lodestone

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            • #7
              Re: THF and Promyvion

              Archer knife (or two if you are /nin) , Zamburak +1 and Venom/Bloody bolts, that's all you need to be a good DD in Promies as a THF.

              Most "X job is useless here" coments come from unskilled players who really need stuff like a SMN 2 hours and tons of meds and animas simply because they don't know how to play.

              I remember one SMN who was saying PLD was useless in Diabolos fight, prommies and all that, yet when I fought Diabolos I tanked as a PLD and we beat him on our first try. Interestingly enough after that fight I got replaced by a NIN and they wiped twice before giving up for the day. I tanked all my promies as a PLD, never used any meds but a few Yagudo drinks and not more that 4 animas a fight.

              Finding a group of good players to go fight with you is where the true CoP's difficulty is in, not the fights themselves.
              sigpic
              "In this world, the one who has the most fun is the winner!" C.B.
              Prishe's Knight 2004-Forever.

              その目だれの目。

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              • #8
                Re: THF and Promyvion

                I've done prommies and all the missions as THF (ok so I did prommies the first time as RNG, but I still went back and helped as THF/RNG). For the best chance of success, a high dammage 2 hour does make a big difference. But a party that can work together really well can over come any need for mass spike dammage.


                IGE needs to take the big dirt nap

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                • #9
                  Re: THF and Promyvion

                  Even so, Thief definitely struggles in most CoP battles, since so many of them are speed-damage tests of strength, and thieves have trouble dealing big bursts of damage.
                  ummm, i thought THF had the best burst damage. ...every minute?
                  i thought they were considered weak for damage over time.

                  i went as THF/NIN, no problems.

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                  • #10
                    Re: THF and Promyvion

                    At higher levels, THF have good burst damage. At level 30, inside Promyvion... they're just "OK". Daggers at that level just don't pack a lot of punch, so the damage multipliers from Sneak Attack and Trick Attack really don't rack up the sort of numbers that Thieves can get later on.

                    Thieves are still useful though - for instance, in Promyvion-Dem, a THF can probably hold one of the Offspring off for a long time, between /NIN shadows, Perfect Dodge, and natural evasion, while still being able to damage the boss and buying the party more time to win before you're overwhelmed by spawned Offspring.


                    Icemage

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                    • #11
                      Re: THF and Promyvion

                      Actually, I had the most trouble with Promyvion-Dem's boss. Those Offspring just suck, especially when the melee's don't even try to keep them away from the mages (which was the case). With the big bad Holla we had 4 SMN sooo... nuff said.

                      Anyways, back on topic, the Promy's aren't so terribly hard that any one job is useless, people are just lazy. Sure, there may be other "better" tactics, but as long as a tactic gets you a win then its good enough.
                      RDM 75 - SMN 72 - WHM 37 - BLM 37 - DRK 37 -
                      Bastok Rank 10 Completed
                      Rise of the Zilart 16 "The Celestial Nexus"
                      Chains of Promathia 8 - 1 "Garden of Antiquity"
                      Treasures of Aht Urghan 13 "Lost Kingdom"

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                      • #12
                        Re: THF and Promyvion

                        I actualy made it through as THF but I alted back to the equpment setup I used before Viper bite: Using SATA + Fast Blade or just SA + Fast Blade. Usually in a BCMN situation no one has time to set up a mob to get hit with a full SATA so Sneak attack works pretty good here. I also ran around with a bow(wearing mostly ranger gear)...because I hadn't really done any skilling on marksmanship...
                        Shadowneko's FFXI Newbie Guide 2009
                        (have fun MMO players ^^)
                        Jon Davies AKA: Shadowneko of Midradsomr...soon to be transferred to Quetzalcoatl

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                        • #13
                          Re: THF and Promyvion

                          SE didn't design the mobs for SMN, NIN, RNG ONRY. We made it that way.

                          Ogranization and strategy is 99% of the fight.
                          SOKARRDAMUS

                          70 Dark Knight
                          71 Thief

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                          • #14
                            Re: THF and Promyvion

                            Originally posted by Sokarr
                            SE didn't design the mobs for SMN, NIN, RNG ONRY. We made it that way.

                            Ogranization and strategy is 99% of the fight.


                            Thank you.
                            Organization and strategy is the key to any good successful party.

                            I appreciate all of your comments, and I've found that THF/NIN rocked in Promyvion regardless of what people claim.

                            On top of that, completed Promyvion-dem with members from my all galka LS.

                            1st run setup - PLD WAR THF BLU WHM SMN. Success.
                            2nd run setup - WAR WAR RNG THF SMN. Success. Our WHM wiped out on the way, but he already completed run, so no biggie.

                            Not only was the burst damage helpful, the hate control was actually easier, not to mention the main tank had a nice supply of x-potions. BLU and THF were awesome to take care of spawns that popped, and a great supply of anima makes this fight cake.

                            Supposedly, that's supposed to be the easiest of fights. But I'm looking foward to Holla and Mea.
                            "Vacation. Alienation. Japanamation. Manga. Kanga. Naked Lunch. Hawaiian punch!!"


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                            • #15
                              Re: THF and Promyvion

                              Congrats on being one step closer to Lufaise.^^/ I knew you could do it.

                              Also cool to see you doing Promyvion with PLD. People kept insisting it was a useless job in there, but my friends and I proved them wrong.

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