Dagger Wield

[Puerilis]

One of the things about THF that always urked me was that you couldn't do the classic Dual Daggers without going ninja subjob. It was almost upsetting. In a majority of the FF and other Squaresoft Games a Theif always has his main weapon and his "Thief Dagger" A second weapon that they always have, useful for breaking in doors and windows, and a quick stab weapon in tight spot, Ya know?

So requiring THF to equip Ninja as a subjob makes it seem like your giving up your best tool to another job, and seem weak with out it. So I wanted to try and create a suggestion for SE. Just to get this off my chest and know that "Hell, I tried." Because quite Frankly, I prefer the classics.


Dagger Wield: Level one obtained at Level 10 - Only Usable while Thief is your Main Job.
Allows the Thief to equip any Dagger type (And ONLY Dagger Type) weapon to the Sub-weapon hand.

The effect would generally be the Same as using /nin for Dual Wield, Except the Delay equation for using two weapons would be slightly slower then dual wield itself. Thus not TOO overshining the /nin subjob. And at certain levels have the same II, and III as Dual Wield. But Still not going faster then the normal Dual Wield.

This alone would unlock and allow users past 20 to use a subjob other then /nin, especially us poor folk. But still have the ability to equip two stat boost/enfeebing weapons. But would still leave /nin an option for pullers who need Utsusemi for those Fast Mobs. It would also make leveling THF between 10 and 15 a lot easier, because for obvious reasons, THF gets very few invites for those few levels. And they end up soloing. And soloing as a thief is generally slow do to having to rest after almost ever mob you fight thats over EP.

And to be honest I'm one of the many players of FF11 who hate that certain mainjobs are "locked in" to using only one subjob.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Dagger Wield

if you are that concerned about just the "appearance" of DW daggers have you tried DAT swapping out your shield for a dagger (and going THF/war)?

[nanatsu]

Re: Dagger Wield

Why would being able to dual wield from 10-15 make a thf's job any easier? Dual Wield I is already not much of an improvement in delay and you want to offer thf a slower version of that? Wouldn't that just make thf slower than they are with one weapon? 10-15 is better spent using /war since you could at least provoke if needed. Okay so you can have +1 dex and +1 agi and the chance to blind and silence a monster in addition to main hand dagger. +1 Dex and +1 Agi is something, but it's not a job improver. The silence and blind effects aren't guaranteed. And mages can do it better than you. Keep in mind also that when a nin gets dual wield I, it's not "Oh I can attack two times for every attack you make." Dual Wield I is more like, "Oh I attacked twice but I have a really long delay from the combined delay of my weapons so I have to wait a long time before I can attack again." I don't see how that makes solo or party play any easier for a thf from 10-15.

So I can't understand your reasoning with what I mentioned above. That's not to say that some kind of dual wield for thf wouldn't be nice. Just think your logic is kinda skewed.

[Balfree]

Re: Dagger Wield

I know a THF who never subs /nin

He pwns face.

[Rai]

Re: Dagger Wield

I personally have always thought THF/RNG would be a great combo, but /nin had always ruled. I see this as SE adjusting /nin more that screwing THF. THFs can use bow, crossbows and some guns, having Ranged weapons skills, sharpshot, barrage and Accuracy Up I and II seems good to me.

Accuracy Bonus I (DRG30, RNG10): +10
Accuracy Bonus II (RNG30): +22 (is +12 but stacks with Accuray Up 1 for +22 total)

THF/RNG with a +ATT shield and macro'd +R.Acc gear seems like a very good option to me. THF has C+ in Marksmanship, the same rating SAMs have in archery. Acid bolts, bloody bolts, sleep bolts, slugshot /RNG has just always been what I wanted to sub to THF when I level THF more. If I could only afford a Viking Shield.

[Puerilis]

Re: Dagger Wield

Why would being able to dual wield from 10-15 make a thf's job any easier? Dual Wield I is already not much of an improvement in delay and you want to offer thf a slower version of that? Wouldn't that just make thf slower than they are with one weapon? 10-15 is better spent using /war since you could at least provoke if needed. Okay so you can have +1 dex and +1 agi and the chance to blind and silence a monster in addition to main hand dagger. +1 Dex and +1 Agi is something, but it's not a job improver. The silence and blind effects aren't guaranteed. And mages can do it better than you. Keep in mind also that when a nin gets dual wield I, it's not "Oh I can attack two times for every attack you make." Dual Wield I is more like, "Oh I attacked twice but I have a really long delay from the combined delay of my weapons so I have to wait a long time before I can attack again." I don't see how that makes solo or party play any easier for a thf from 10-15.

So I can't understand your reasoning with what I mentioned above. That's not to say that some kind of dual wield for thf wouldn't be nice. Just think your logic is kinda skewed.

Attacking a little bit slower, but being able to attack twice still gains more TP faster If I'm thinking about this correctly. And a Thf needs all the TP he can get. Being able to get a weaponskill off helps a lot at those 5 levels, and then being able to continue on doing the same after you get Sneak attack. I said it would be slightly slower then normal dual wield, but not by enough to be noticable. And again that one point was just one of the many I mentioned. The main hand wouldn't be restricted to daggers only, so a sapara/scimitar could still be equipped in the main hand. While keeping your beestinger in your offhand.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Dagger Wield

Except they just changed the way that TP is gained, so you can't use the tricks of the past year or whatever to gain TP faster from dual wield. Its been leveled off, evened out, etc., etc.

[Puerilis]

Re: Dagger Wield

TP is based on your Delay still no?

[neighbortaru]

Re: Dagger Wield

yes TP is still based on delay.

[Puerilis]

Re: Dagger Wield

ahhh I see. Ok I understand the TP Fix now.

[GaelWanderling]

Re: Dagger Wield

sevenpointflaw: Except they just changed the way that TP is gained, so you can't use the tricks of the past year or whatever to gain TP faster from dual wield. Its been leveled off, evened out, etc., etc.

Nah, .5 less tp easily fixed with rajas ring and one or two of the new store tp items like chivalrous chain, dual wield will always provide a larger margin of tp gain, infact warriors dual wielding axes now actually gain more tp from the axes and they still attack just as fast.

[Lmnop]

Re: Dagger Wield

not to be rude but... where the hell did you get that?

delay = tp. less delay = less tp. dual wield I = 10% less delay off of the combined dagger delay. It used to be that the only thing that made thf/nin gain tp faster was teh tp floor. And this really didn't come into the picture 'til 50 when a thf/war would just have a 10% chance to DA anyway. With the lowered floor, I don't see how thf/nin could possibly give more tp. Store TP works on %. Store tp +5 will give like +5% tp. this means that it affects bigger delay weapons just as much as it affects lower delay weapons. Attacking more often increases DoT, not Tp gain. that is all.

[nanatsu]

Re: Dagger Wield

not to be rude but... where the hell did you get that?

delay = tp. less delay = less tp. dual wield I = 10% less delay off of the combined dagger delay. It used to be that the only thing that made thf/nin gain tp faster was teh tp floor. And this really didn't come into the picture 'til 50 when a thf/war would just have a 10% chance to DA anyway. With the lowered floor, I don't see how thf/nin could possibly give more tp. Store TP works on %. Store tp +5 will give like +5% tp. this means that it affects bigger delay weapons just as much as it affects lower delay weapons. Attacking more often increases DoT, not Tp gain. that is all.

Exactly. Thf/nin is and always has been only good for two things before 50. Utsusemi and stats on offhand dagger. I dunno where people are getting this big idea about subbed dual wield giving you godly tp powers. It never did. It jactually makes you take another attack round to get to 100% tp in the same amount of time as someone using a higher delay weapon. And this was before the tp floor change not after. 10% isn't a lot, people. Deal with it already. Unless you're a 50+ with a low delay weapon, or unless you're a nin, you shouldn't be concerning yourself with dual wield. It does nothing for you.

[Kag is fxcking dead.]

Re: Dagger Wield

nanatsu for the win. I just restarted my character after pure boredom, and I'm not even unlocking NIN until my THF hits 48, for the Bone knife +1s.

[GaelWanderling]

Re: Dagger Wield

ummmm....2 axes...2 swing...2 chances to double attack on a warrior....yes that helps you gain tp...have you talked to a warrior after tp change? the nerf doesnt affect them, thf is meh...nothing a few merrits in dagger and triple attack to fix it...theres a reasong why SE balanced it so you cant say that dual wielders didnt make good tp, the only one really affected here is thf since they depended on making 100 tp for WS asap.

*this is directed to 50+ also, sorry if i might have misread somewhere though*