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  • A way to get fast TP very few people use...

    Just thought I'd throw this out there. Ranged weapons get faster TP than melee weapons because they use the same Delay-TP formula, but ranged weapons follow a different TP/time ratio. For melee weapons, 60 Delay = 1 second. For ranged weapons, however, 100 Delay = 1 second.

    That means a Chakram, which has 294 Delay, only takes 2.94 seconds to be thrown, and will return 7.67 TP. On the other hand, a melee weapon would need to have 176 Delay to swing every 2.94 seconds, but would only give 5 TP per hit. If you do the math, 7.67/5 = 1.54. That's right - the Chakram gives 54% more TP; you'd need to have Store TP +54 to match that with a dagger. The Chakram would need 14 hits to reach 100 TP, and it would take 41.16 seconds to shoot it 14 times. On the other hand, a dagger with 176 Delay would need 20 hits to reach 100 TP, and it'd take 58.8 seconds to swing that many times. Of course, a THF's TP sort of goes to waste without SATA, but it's very hard to have 95% Accuracy, so the Chakram allows for more misses while still getting the same TP.

    A Chakram has no "reload delay," so it can be thrown again almost immediately. Of course, human error and not having a way to tell exactly when we can shoot again will leave small gaps between shots. However, these small gaps between shots are not wasted - since you have your weapon drawn, any idle time will simply further your melee timer. We also have to consider that ranged attacks vary in power and accuracy depending on your distance from the mob. It just so happens, though, that the "sweet spot" for thrown weapons is at point-blank range. Of course, THF doesn't have A-rank Throwing; it's C. This is easily remedied with all the +Ranged Accuracy gear that's available to THF. /RNG sub really shines here, providing Sharpshot and Rapid Shot (some shots will go off sooner, speeding up your TP gain) as well as Accuracy Bonus for both your melee and ranged attacks.

    I'm in no way proposing that you can replace your daggers with a boomerang/chakram, or that you can replace Acid Bolts with them for that matter. I'm not assuming this is viable in every level range, either. However, I do think it should be taken into consideration, and used when appropriate. A boomerang/chakram will usually have a better DPS ratio than daggers as well.

    A few side notes: Haste doesn't affect ranged attack speed. Neither does Slow. These two facts will skew the TP difference one way or another. Double Attack, Triple Attack, and Dual Weild (if exploiting the TP floor) can also close the gap in TP gain. Also, a Mercurial Kris would probably out-TP a boomerang/chakram anyways. Like I said earlier, this isn't always the best option, but it can be a TP boost. This goes especially more so before 30; THFs only have a D sword skill, and yet it's the most used weapon, despite there not being any +Accuracy gear available other than Battle Gloves.

  • #2
    Re: A way to get fast TP very few people use...

    i've used boomerang/chakrams before. then again, i'm cheap

    Thanks Yyg!

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    • #3
      Re: A way to get fast TP very few people use...

      Sounds interesting. You are right, it would definately be of more use earlier on. Pre-50 before DW2 kicks in and its easier to take advantage of the TP floor, and like you said, even moreso pre-30 when weapon ratings don't mean a whole lot. Only problem pre-30 is even rangers have a helluva hard time hitting crap then. Accuracy could be a problem. Give it a try though and tell us what you think. Ofcourse the benefit of possibly having a SA+WS every minute vs. the party's benefit of acid bolts would also have to be checked out.
      I RNG 75 I WAR 37 I NIN 38 I SAM 50 I Woodworking 92+2

      PSN: Caspian

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      • #4
        Re: A way to get fast TP very few people use...

        i suppose its possible.... but realistically, tell me how many thf have throwing lvld? and what caspian said is true about rng acc for rng pre 30. i remember those days, this was before the rng update also. i cant tell you how many flaming/piercing arrows i whiffed on.

        about the delay after throwing, im not sure if its a game/lag delay but there IS a delay after you throw your chakram. i actually took the time to cap my throwing from 120~ to 225, i spend a LOT of time inside newton molvopolos killing the higher teir gobbies. spamming my throwing hotkey, there is a definite delay after my catch animation has ended and when my next throwing animation has started.
        Omni@Remora: NIN75 RNG75 MNK75 COR75 BST64 BRD53
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        • #5
          Re: A way to get fast TP very few people use...

          Sorry to say I have no memory of any accuracy problems pre-30. Though I also maxed out Throwing, Archery, and Marksmanship on the Trent Event which seemed to help greatly on any accuracy issues. So as far as missing I new it pre-10.


          Cheezy Test Result (I am nerdier than 96% of all people. Are you nerdier? Click here to find out!)

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          • #6
            Re: A way to get fast TP very few people use...

            There is a definite change in accuracy pre and post 30. Pre-30 its not horrendous, but there is a notable change, both at 28 for archer's knives and at 30 when the second accuracy trait kicks in.
            Acid bolts are considered ok in xp parties, b/c if the thf is changing to as much +r. acc. gear he can, then he should be hitting nearly 50% of bolts and maybe proc'ing over half of those. Its worth it to have a cpl misses and finally an acid proc b/c it makes such a huge difference in damage that it helps all melees. Plus, if you have a rng in a party, he can keep using bow and doing as much damage as possible. The question is does the extra damage from always doing a SATA+WS outweigh the extra damage all the melees do added together in that same minute?
            I RNG 75 I WAR 37 I NIN 38 I SAM 50 I Woodworking 92+2

            PSN: Caspian

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            • #7
              Re: A way to get fast TP very few people use...

              about the delay after throwing, im not sure if its a game/lag delay but there IS a delay after you throw your chakram. i actually took the time to cap my throwing from 120~ to 225, i spend a LOT of time inside newton molvopolos killing the higher teir gobbies. spamming my throwing hotkey, there is a definite delay after my catch animation has ended and when my next throwing animation has started.
              That's odd...I can throw almost immediately after the boomerang returns to my hand. Either way, any "wasted" time is just going to go into normal meleeing, so it's no big loss.

              I don't think the accuracy was so bad either, I'd be able to get an acid bolt off on the second or third shot at most, and it's definetely worth going out of my way for it. Besides, there's definetely far more +Ranged Accuracy stuff out there than Accuracy, enough to easily cover the skill gap and technically give you more ranged accuracy than you have melee accuracy.

              Of course, we still have to "outdamage" the Acid Bolts. I just thought of an extra application for this that could make it worth it, though - Ranged Attacks don't strip Boost. A THF/MNK could use ranged weapons for TP while "storing" 4 Boosts (which would be 50/60% attack up depending on wether each successive Boost is based off of your original Attack or your new Attack) for SA/SATA+WS. Being able to have a 50% (or 60%) Attack bonus every single time (as opposed to Attack up 25% 3 out of 5 minutes with Berserk) sounds very good. Of course, Berserk isn't even available from 20-30 which makes this even more appealing. I don't think I'll be levelling my THF any time soon, but if I do, I'll definetely give this a try.

              Assuming this actually works and you can fall back on your ranged attacks, since you'll barely be swinging a dagger, at 28 you could get an Archer's Knife to increase your ranged accuracy further. At 30 Noct will also help, and if you're subbing RNG, you can get the +3 Ranged Accuracy RNG sub earring.
              Last edited by Armando; 02-09-2006, 03:59 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: A way to get fast TP very few people use...

                The Boost theory would be interesting to see in action. I do know that whilst playing RNG pre-nerf that you will occasionally slip in melee shots even if spamming ctrl+d. The timer keeps running and will kick in in the smallest of windows. You'd have to hope for a little skill at it and a lot of luck. If it does work, it would make a heck of a difference.
                I RNG 75 I WAR 37 I NIN 38 I SAM 50 I Woodworking 92+2

                PSN: Caspian

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                • #9
                  Re: A way to get fast TP very few people use...

                  Well, you'd already be trading off some accuracy for raw power (since we wouldn't be using RNG sub) so I don't think it'd hurt to simply be disengaged except when doing SA and WS. I'm really curious myself now, maybe I'll level my THF a bit this weekend and give it a shot.

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