how exactly does it work...

[jynxxnyan]

so im lvling mnk right now on my elv and eventually i'd like to lvl thf to 30 for farming and such and i was wondering since im sure ill be using sneak attack...

how does it work? how should it be applied and when, what stats affect it?

ive been reading through like 5 pages of posts but im kind of pressed for time, this being a schools computer with blockage to informational gamie sites ... i can get some idea but in my head its just really foggy still so any helps appreciated

[Brayden]

Re: how exactly does it work...

you trigger your Sneak attack ability and the next swing your char takes will be a critical hit. This is providing you are standing behind the monster. The effect wont work if you are on the sides or are in front. Something to be aware of also is that b/c of its crit hit nature, you will generate hate- not a real problem when farming since you'll be hunting solo, but in early lvling times it can mean problems if you dont have a good tank.

[Eldege]

Re: how exactly does it work...

yep and it is baced one the ammount of dex that you have.

SA = dex

TA = agi

[Alontier]

Re: how exactly does it work...

Not sure 100% sure but think it was something like this:
"Sneak Attack" damage cap: (D+8+(D/9)+DEX)*3
"Trick Attack" crit damage cap: (D+8+(D/9)+AGI)*3
"Trick Attack" normal damage cap: D+AGI
SA&TA damage cap: (D+8+(D/9)+DEX+AGI)*3

[Last_Viper]

Re: how exactly does it work...

ok, some infos to get more easily maybe..

Sneak Attack
Once activated it will last for 60 seconds or one hit. Recast timer 60 seconds.
It only works standing behind the mob, if soloing should be your 1st attack, in pt it can be done easy if the tank has hate.
The dmg will look like:
(Weapon dmg + your overall DEX) * critical hit
so pushing your dex will help.

if you using THF as subjob, you will get a critical hit but not the DEX bonus onto your weapon.

Sneak Attack (SA) can be used with Weaponskills, but not with all.
You maybe want to set a macro.
Weaponskills that work really good are
Viper Bite (Dagger skill 100, level 33)
Combo (Hand to Hand Skill 10)

hope that helps a bit

[Kittyneko]

Re: how exactly does it work...

Well and heres a summary without all the calculating

Level 15: Sneak Attack (SA)
This delivers a high damaged critical hit if you hit the mob from behind.

Level 30: Trick Attack (TA)
This delivers a high damage attack, if theres a party member standind between you and the mob. If you score a critical hit, you'll do even more damage. The "hate" you get from the mob will be transfered to the party member that stands between you. Best to use behind the tank.

Sneak Attack/Trick Attack (SaTa)
You can probably guess how this works by now. You have to use both the abilitys Sneak Attack and Trick attack, then make sure there's a party member between you and the mob, AND you hit the mob from behind.
Maybe this helps to get you an image of it(I'll post a real picture later today.):

PtMember1>> <<Mob <<PtMember2 <<Thief(using sata.)

Sneak Attack/Trick Attack + Weapon Skill (SaTa+WS)
This works exactly the same as SaTa, but you use a Weapon Skill (Shadowstitch, Viper Bite, Dancing Edge etc..). This will cause a lot of damage on the Mob, and gives the party member, which you used it on, a lot of hate.

When is this useful?
Well there are various reasons. First of all, if you close a Skillchain with Sneak Attack/Trick Attack + Weaponskill, the skillchain will do a lot of damage.
Another reason is to transfer a lot of hate to the tank. Here's an example:
The Thief pulled a goblin, and brings it to camp. The warrior uses Provoke so the goblin is facing him. The Paladin stands behind the goblin, and the Thief behind the paladin. Then, the warrior uses Raging Axe. The Thief uses SaTa and Viper Bite. The goblin gets a lot of damage, and will instantly face the Paladin because he got a lot of hate. High chance that it won't turn away anymore from the Paladin(if he does his job right).

::Note: This techinique is being used from level 30~33 untill level 75. It has more use on Ninja's then on Paladin, because Ninja's need to do more work to get enough hate. Either way, it gives the tank a lot of hate.

Tips for leveling Thief:
-Since you're a low level and only want to get Thief to level 30, you might try to go Thf/Mnk (Once you did subjob quest when your Monk has reached level 18). Using Monk as subjob will give you more Hand-to-Hand skills, and Thief has a fairly good rating in using Hand-to-Hand weapons. A lot of low level Thief's also use a Sword + Shield, subbing Warrior to Thief. I guess this depends on what you prefer.

::Note: Be sure no matter how far you level it, to switch to Dagger now and then in Party's. Because you need a Dagger skill of 100 at level 33 in order to get the Weapon Skill called "Viper Bite." If you don't have that Weapon Skill after level 33, there's a good chance that Party leaders might disband you. You said you only wanted to get Thief to level 30, yet I think it might still be worth to level Dagger skill during Party's. You never know if you might ever want to level it any further.
-Subbing Ninja. Once you reach level 30 with any job, you might want to get the Ninja job to use it as subjob for Thief. Past level 35~ish, this is almost completely required. Subbing Ninja (Past level 20 as Thief) gives the well-loved ability Dual Weild. This allows you to carry 2 Daggers. One as Main Weapon, one as Sub Weapon. This also helps you getting TP quicker. But that is stuff to worry about later.
-You also get the great ability "Flee" at level 25, which allows you to run really fast for 30 seconds. This is great when you have to run over far distance's.
-Useful Macro's for Thief.
These are examples.

/p Using SaTa.
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ws "Viper Bite" <t>

-This Macro helps you using SaTa+WS instantly, without having to select the ability's yourself in the menu, risking you to be too late with your Weapon Skill.

/p Using Flee!
/ja "Flee" <me>

You might want to macro this once you get to level 25. Because later, when you for example are a level 50 Monk, you might want to go Monk/Thief from time to time, for example to farm. Then you can use Flee as well.

I hope this helped ><

[Armando]

Re: how exactly does it work...

THF has the worst possible rating (other than not having the skill at all) in Hand-to-Hand (E) and Martial Arts doesn't increase Hand-to-Hand skill, it simply lowers the delay to a much bearable level (Martial Arts 1 brings it down from 480 to 400 base delay if I remember right, which is quite a difference.) Technically there's an F rank but no job has an F in Hand-to-Hand. Hell, few jobs have an F skill as it is (THF and RDM have F in Shield...that's about it) and E is still pretty lousy. Also, THF's Sword skill is D. Not that good either. I realize that the majority of THF damage comes in bursts (SA and TA) but don't forget that those 10-15 other swings count too I opted to go with a dagger once I started partying, but Sword and Hand-to-Hand still work (please sub MNK!) It's a matter of personal preference.

Also, I don't believe NIN sub is required post-35 except when you're pulling mobs that run way too fast to allow you to get to camp safely (Raptors and Tigers.) My girlfriend's 45 and still uses WAR sub. Berserk makes a difference, don't neglect it! Of course, personal preference still comes into play here. Just keep your options open. Versatility is important for any job :3

[Kittyneko]

Re: how exactly does it work...

-_-

[aegina]

Re: how exactly does it work...

/p Using SaTa.
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ja "Trick Attack" <me>
/wait 1
/ws "Viper Bite" <t>

my ps2 needs /wait 2 between sneak attack and trick attack, or else the trick doesn't work. that's called lag. my laptop, owever, needs /wait 1. just thought i'd toss that out there.

[Deviantkat]

Re: how exactly does it work...

my ps2 needs /wait 2 between sneak attack and trick attack, or else the trick doesn't work. that's called lag. my laptop, owever, needs /wait 1. just thought i'd toss that out there.

In my experience if you enter a wait 2 you're asking for SATAs to go wrong on you by getting a knife attack to go off between their activations. If you can't use wait 1, then seperate them into individual macros entirely to save yourself the headaches.

Now, if I read correctly you plan on using THF sub for MNK or vice versa? I don't see anything particularly bad about that, as I use THF/MNK regularly when fighting anything that suffers from blunt damage such as bones. Mind you, I generally only use MNK sub for mobs that are T or lower, as THF hand to hand skill is abominable. As for MNK/THF, its rare to see. Although its not really a bad sub to use in most cases, its not really optimal until you can use Dragon Kick. Multihit weaponskills suffer from the effects of SA, as SA only applies to the first hit of a WS, and unless you're THF main, a single SA hit (acting only as a free critical hit) really doesn't count for much. Particularly if its only a critical punch. I've seen some decently good MNK/THFs in the 40s and some particularly awesome ones in the mid to high-60s using Dragon Kick, but in most cases a MNK is best with WAR sub to put the extra attack into their fast hits and multi-hit WSs for that added DoT.

The difference when using THF/MNK in the effectiveness of SATA and multihits is that since you add on your DEX and AGI to your listed weapon damage for the first hit, you can considerably improve the power of that WS. I often use SATA Raging Fists when in eldieme necropolis to help with coffer keys, G1 etc. as it outperfoms, without any argument, SATA Dancing Edge when fighting skeletons. Knife is so poor for skeletons that it is plainly garbage by comparison. THF/MNK is a very nice option to have available to you, even if it is just for the odd circumstance. Not great for EXP, but it holds up very well when fighting weaker mobs that won't exploit your poor weapon rating.

Now, as for THF/MNK below level 30 for exp, don't let anyone tell you that the low WS rating is bad for you. Sure, THF has its best rating with Dagger.... But your WSs with it are worthless until level 33 when you get access to Viper Bite anyway. Sword is another option, but if you actually do the research, THF also has an E rating with Sword, not just hand-to-hand. So if its a toss-up between sword and hand-to-hand, I say go with hand-to-hand and sub MNK. Fast Blade vs. Combo, Combo wins hands down. It's plainly a better WS. Especially when you consider that with MNK sub you get Martial Arts to drop your base fist delay from 480 to 400, you'll be gaining TP faster than you would be wielding a sword (this assumes that Martial Arts does not affect your per-hit TP... It might. I never checked.). Even if this doesn't in fact improve TP gain, your DoT will be better with the reduced delay anyway. I used MNK sub to 30 myself back at PC release. I can't say there's any better option to go with.

[Tokitoki]

Re: how exactly does it work...

THF has the worst possible rating (other than not having the skill at all) in Hand-to-Hand (E) and Martial Arts doesn't increase Hand-to-Hand skill, it simply lowers the delay to a much bearable level (Martial Arts 1 brings it down from 480 to 400 base delay if I remember right, which is quite a difference.) Technically there's an F rank but no job has an F in Hand-to-Hand. Hell, few jobs have an F skill as it is (THF and RDM have F in Shield...that's about it) and E is still pretty lousy. Also, THF's Sword skill is D. Not that good either. I realize that the majority of THF damage comes in bursts (SA and TA) but don't forget that those 10-15 other swings count too I opted to go with a dagger once I started partying, but Sword and Hand-to-Hand still work (please sub MNK!) It's a matter of personal preference.

At such a low lvl the skill difference is only 5 or so points which is not enough to shy you away from H2H or sword. Dagger doesnt get ANY good WS to stack with SA until 33. Shadowstitch is the same Damage, Wasp Sting is same damage, Gust Slash and all those WS dont stack with SA. Much betetr to go with sword or H2H.

[Armando]

Re: how exactly does it work...

Actually, in the case of Hand-to-Hand, at level 10 the difference in skill is 7 points, at 15 (which is when it becomes most relevant) the difference is 9 points, and at 20 the difference is 12 points. For swords, it's 5 points at 10, 7 at 15 and 8 at 20. Though in all fairness, Legionnaire's Knuckles (best level 10 H2H weapon in my opinion) have 2 Accuracy which technically puts them on par with swords at that level, and at level 14 Battle Gloves become available, which can further close the gap with their +3 Accuracy. I know H2H and Sword are very good for THF at those levels even with such lousy weapon ratings (honestly, I can *sorta* understand H2H, but why give THF such a bad sword rating?) and do massive WS damage, and I'm not trying to discourage him from using them, but I just thought I'd point out that fact so that he's well-informed. He's still going to have to choose between at least those two weapons, after all.