Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

[Zempten]

Hi guys

I'm gearing up my Theif from Lvl 45-75 and I've been looking at the weapon selections and I'm not sure what to get.

Currently I am using. . .
Main: Bone Knife +1
Sub: Caveley's Dagger

However, I've been looking further and i realize that I need the highest base damage dagger in my main. I've comed up with the following. . .

Main: Corsair's Knife
Sub: ?

It is the sub that confuses me.

1) Should I go with the Lust Dagger for more AGI?
2) Triple Dagger for the +1% to Tripple Attack?
3) the Hornetneedles because of its low delay?
4) the Kidney Knife for more critical hit rates?

What was your weapon selection up to 75? Please help, I'm confused.

[Gyotsha]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

Out of those daggers you posted, I'd say Hornetneedle would be the best because of the low delay and the dex and agi.

I used Corsair's Knife as main and Bone Knife +1 for the accuracy and attack. Then at 62 I switched my Corsair's knife with a Cermet Kukri +1 and kept the Bone Knife +1. Then once I get to 68 I'm going to get a Harpe or Hoplites Harpe and I havn't decided what I'd use for a sub, probably Bone Knife +1 or a Stun Knife +1.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

IMO, Hornetneedle until 65, then offhand Garuda's Dagger. Gives nice AGI boost along with 7 atk and the dmg/delay isnt bad at all. Not to mention if you're fighting mages it can silence them ;p I've silenced Weapons in moon/sky faster than some RDMs have.

[ibroyles]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

Hornetneedle will net you TP very quickly in the offhand if your accuracy is good. If not, throw on your Bone Knife+1 for a little extra ACC/ATK. It really depends more on if you're fighting VT/IT or IT+++. Like Tokitoki said, in the 60s you'll want to upgrade that Hornetneedle for a little higher DMG weapon. Garuda's Dagger is a fine choice, the new Sirocco Kukri is also very nice(delay of hornetneedle, DMG higher than Garuda! also a 100% wind effect proc)

[ibroyles]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

Decided to add something to my reply. For end game, top-of-the-line dagger selection, I'm of the belief Blau Dolch(main)+Heart Snatcher(sub) is probably the best way to go. Mandau is of course a step ahead of Blau Dolch.

Blau Dolch stats--
DMG: 22 Delay: 178
Latent Effect: DMG: 28 (hidden- ATK+14 ACC+5)

Latent on this is triggered by being under 100% TP, that includes while firing off WS since your TP depletes right before it connects. Just the sheer damage on this weapon along with the ATK bonus makes it great, imo. Obtained by either "Shall we Dance" or "Totentanz" uncapped ENMs in Boneyard Gulley. Sells for ~6-7mill on Titan, iirc. I will say though, some people think Martial Knife is better.

Heart Snatcher, as I'm sure you may be aware of, has Latent effect similar to Trial weapons(for questable WS'es). It's opposite though, you unlock the latent and make it permanent by getting 500 "WS" points. The Critical Hit+6% combined with merits for critical hit up would be great. There's a theory that upping critical rate increases your accuracy, not sure if its true...

As for straight best bang for your buck, Gyotsha said it best. Possibly try a Martial Knife if you're interested(supposedly great for SB). I don't use it personally because you never know when you have to bust out DE, which it's basically worthless for. I'm subbing Misericorde right now until I can upgrade to something better. The bone knife+1 honestly just started seeming a little dated, higher D is noticable in the sub on normal swings on decos at least. Hoping to camp for a Sirocco Kukri soon, or do a KS run and get a Heart Snatcher.

[UnnamedGalka]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

It's opposite though, you unlock the latent and make it permanent by getting 500 "WS" points. The Critical Hit+6% combined with merits for critical hit up would be great.

What I've heard about weapons like the Heart Snatcher is that, after you gain 500 points and unlock the latent effect, you actually start to lose your points as you WS with the weapon after the latent is activated. Once all 500 points are gone, the latent becomes dormant again, and it takes another 500 points to bring it back.

I don't know how credible this theory is, but there you have it. I don't think weapons like the Heart Snatcher are really worth it if it's true.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

I use a Martial Knife for Shark Bite and Evisceration, and it does serve me well. When I have to use DE I switch to H. Harpe, as long as I have room to bring it along ;p

[ibroyles]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

What I've heard about weapons like the Heart Snatcher is that, after you gain 500 points and unlock the latent effect, you actually start to lose your points as you WS with the weapon after the latent is activated. Once all 500 points are gone, the latent becomes dormant again, and it takes another 500 points to bring it back.

I don't know how credible this theory is, but there you have it. I don't think weapons like the Heart Snatcher are really worth it if it's true.

I heard this rumor too. It may have truth to it. The nice thing about THF and these type of weapons though, is that in off hand they are unable to be "unlocked." So by breaking it in the main hand, then only equipping it in the off hand, it should theoretically be unharmed by any further WS done.

edit: If this rumor is true... are Destroyers really that great for monk? Most monks stand by Destroyers as the best end game weapon...wonder if any of them have tried testing it. I understand its undeniable that unlocked Destroyers > ALL. But just the sheer maintenence factor of them would be frustration. I'm sure the change in DMG would become quite noticeable, have yet to see any solid proof of the latent not being completely permanent though. Then again, MNKs tend to solo spam their WS's, so they'd probably break the latent really slowly in normal XP.

[Zempten]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

For myself, I'm not finding much difference between having Sniper Rings (2), Battle Gloves, and a Life Belt when I'm eatting Squid Sushi +1. So I think I'm probably am going to be ditching the Bone Knife +1.

I'm wondering, is the amount of TP important for DE and Shark Bite?

Sirocco Kukri . . . hm . . . that's interesting. I'm going to have to look ino it.

I have a harpe atm, was a pointless to get? I've been trying to gear up my THF ahead of time a bit.

Double Post Edited:
That's interseting. . . .

Can a 75 RDM/37 NIN solo the NM for Sirocco Kukri ?

[ibroyles]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

Harpe is great at the level you can use it. It's a little expensive is why I didnt mention it, on my server you can obtain a Blau Dolch for not much more(and I think its much better). I don't think you'll be dissapointed though ^^. I just have a H. Harpe and think its great.

As for WS'es: DE is given more accuracy by more TP. Usually not that great for sushi users, using sushi its common to get back 14% TP almost every time. Shark Bite, on the other hand, one of its biggest modifiers is TP. This, again, is why people favor Martial Knife.

I have been doing some research on the difficulty of this NM myself. Doesn't look too hard, as a THF I definitely can't solo. You on the other hand may be able to. It's main difficulty for me is the fact that it will triple-spam Stormwind(wipes shadows). Other than this it just has typical bird type attacks(triple attack being one, wipes 3 shadows), but with NIN sub shouldn't be hard to block. I would definitely need a healer there, even with help it could probably be trioed with THF as main tank, DD, WHM or BRD. Even if you couldn't solo it, you would have no problems holding it or kiting it to wait for backup to arrive. It'd be a "challenge" at least ^^(if you're into that sort of thing).

[UnnamedGalka]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

You make a good point by saying that a latent-active Heart Snatcher would make a great off-hand weapon, as you'll never WS with it and thereby won't (or at least shouldn't) lose your points. I, too, thought of this shortly after I made my post.

edit: If this rumor is true... are Destroyers really that great for monk? Most monks stand by Destroyers as the best end game weapon...wonder if any of them have tried testing it. I understand its undeniable that unlocked Destroyers > ALL. But just the sheer maintenence factor of them would be frustration. I'm sure the change in DMG would become quite noticeable, have yet to see any solid proof of the latent not being completely permanent though. Then again, MNKs tend to solo spam their WS's, so they'd probably break the latent really slowly in normal XP.

All of my MNK friends flat-out refuse to use Destroyers because they all believe the rumor.

I wish we could get some concrete proof one way or another...

[Zempten]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

I see, thanks Ib

[Nodachi]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

There's a theory that upping critical rate increases your accuracy, not sure if its true...

It's true, just not directly. Reason for this is, if your critical hit procs. then it means your hit is garaunteed. So basically; if your critical hits are occuring more often, you're garaunteeing more hits, in turn your ACC averages better.

And refering to other posts. The latent on the BC weapons is no rumor or myth. They can and all have been tested through strait visualization of seeing your stats improve all the way to running parsers to test Critical hit rate and damage output. It is indeed 500 WS to unlock it. Once unlocked they remain unlocked.

And for end game, I think top mainhand is still Perseu's Harpe correct? Havn't seen that mentioned. Also, has anyone tried this X's knife? Just found it. D is kind of low for the level, delay is average. But the description has me real interested. "Increases Critical Hit Damage". Does this mean it would effect sneak attack and assasin's damage? Hmm

Great posts btw. Really trying to cram all the Thief knowledge that I can before leveling it again and this is only getting me more excited lol.

[ibroyles]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

I agree P. Harpe is great, I would take that dagger any day. One of the problems I'm having with my THF at end game though is pushing my ATK higher for deco-weapon parties. I saw the error in my ways, I use to push an all DEX/AGI build -- until I got a BRD who was singing double minuet on me and my SB jumped up by ~400 dmg. Blau Dolch(being not far behind P. Harpe with D28 as opposed to D31) adds ATK+14 for weapon skills, that helps a lot. When you really compare the two, its a toss up between really rare RARE/EX drop, or really expensive buyable item. Both will serve you well. Mandau is still gonna be #1, although for all intents and purposes we can usually omit that from discussion.

As for X's Knife, I still can't find where to obtain it. If anybody could help us THF's out I would be greatly appreciative! I understand it may drop from that CoP rematch battlefield -- I'm not sure though. I'm definitely intrigued by its advertised effect.

edit: I really applaud SE on their recent additions of THF equips. We really have so many choices end game it makes tweaking out your equips really fun. I get excited over posts like this, just thinking of possibilities =P

[Nodachi]

Re: Weapon Discussion Lvl 45-75

edit: I really applaud SE on their recent additions of THF equips. We really have so many choices end game it makes tweaking out your equips really fun. I get excited over posts like this, just thinking of possibilities =P

Yeah that's what I really look forward to about Thief. Most other melee have distinct choices as to what the 'best' equipment options are. Especially when it comes to weapons. Thief, commonly having two weapons to equip leaves room for all sorts of stat adjustments and things to customize. Orz wish my NIN was already to 37 so I could continue thief already lol :/