Viper Bite

[Zempten]

Hello

I was reading thru the WS chart (The one named Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing) and looking at the THF's WS Viper Bite. I noticed that they said

Dagger WS: Viper Bite
100% 200% 300%: 1.00
#Hits: 1
Secondary Attribute: ATK X2
TP Adjustment: More Poison

Well, as common knowledge it is important to stack up as much DEX and AGI as you can for a SATA WS, however if the attribute for the WS is ATK x 2, then can it be possible to achieve higher damage by concentrating more on ATK then on DEX and AGI?

The reason I ask this is because I noticed last night while on Quicksand Caves my Viper Bite was achieving a normal around the higher 300s and lower 400s and randomly hitting over 500 on mainly spiders and beetles. Well the 300 and 400s is exactly the value of my ATK times 2.

So has anyone tested this out?

BTW, if you want to look for the Weapon Skill Data thread it is http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...pon+Skill+Data
(That's what it says on the bottom of my printed copy)

[Akai]

Re: Viper Bite

i noticed that on my thf aswell...sometimes id do like 500 orso and moslty 300-400 but i think the dex/agi would be better than attack

[Zempten]

Re: Viper Bite

i noticed that on my thf aswell...sometimes id do like 500 orso and moslty 300-400 but i think the dex/agi would be better than attack

If more people say that I'm going to think about testing wether there is an actually DEX and AGI cap

[Omni]

Re: Viper Bite

If more people say that I'm going to think about testing wether there is an actually DEX and AGI cap

my viperbites are real random as well.
i have +25 dex and +21 agi at lv. 35 and my viper bites do anywhere from 300-500 dmg. all fighting the same mobs too, bats.

not really much +atk equipment at the moment. any high lv. thfs have anything to add? +atk or dex/agi to stabalize viperbite numbers...

[Zempten]

Re: Viper Bite

Okay, well if I'm going to setup a Controlled Setting I'm going to need help. As I've never done testing with meele before.

I think I'm going to take on the spiders in the quicksand area. I'll try to do about 10 fights with each equipment setting (as in gradually increasing attack while losing DEX and AGI). I think I'm going to try to lose the AGI first since from what others tell me AGI isn't that importantly until I get Assassin at 60, which by then Dancing Edge is a different ball game.

As far as food is concern, I want to stick with Squid Sushi for as long as possible because of the grants to DEX, AGI, and Accuracy. However if I need to I'll use Meat Mithakabobs if my Attack is below 200. If it is greater then 200 then I'll use Dhamel Stew as indicated by ffxi.somepage.com 's food section. Hopefully my snipers and battle gloves will allow me to still get TP at a decent rate.

Another thing that I might try is that if ATK indeed plays a bigger role. . . I might just SJ DRG for the Haste Earring (for TP gain) and the Attack Mantle, which would also allow me to use a Strike Shield (Viking? LOL, I'm too poor . . . for now =P) for a bit more added attack. Plus a Attack Bonus JT too ^^

Wish me luck? ^^ I'll probably have results in 2 to 3 days. I don't get to play as much.

If any higher lvl THFs have done this before, it would help ^^

P.S: If anyone can help me make a better "control expereiment" I would appreciate it ^^ I don't want to do this and then be told that all my testing has like 50 billion unknow merits.

Double Post Edited:
Oh just thought about WAR's Berserk . . . wow the possibilities. . . but which will work? or will old traditions continue to live? ^^

I think the order of testing will go as THF/NIN, THF/WAR, and then THF/DRG.

[Zempten]

Re: Viper Bite

Here is my equipment raised to the highest DEX and AGI that I can think of


Main: Marauder's Knife
Sub: Calveley's Dagger
Ranged: Thug's Zamburak
Ammo: Bloody Bolts (No acid bolts because I want pure results)
Head: Emperor Hairping
Neck: Spike Necklace
Ear1: Genin Earring
Ear2: Drone Earring
Body: Brigandine Armor +1
Hand: Magna Gauntlets
Ring1: Deft Ring
Ring2: Deft Ring
Back: Nomad Mantle
Waist: Mercenary Captain's Belt
Legs: Magna M Chausses
Feet: Leaping Boots



Okay here we go

Testing Day 1 - THF/NIN

Experiment #1
DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 26, ATK: 171

SATA 1: 362
SATA 2: 388
SATA 3: 432
SATA 4: 420
SATA 5: 441
SATA 6: 408
SATA 7: 403
SATA 8: 438
SATA 9: 460
SATA10:391


Highes Damage:460
Lowest Damage: 362
Average Damage: 414


Experiment #2
DEX: 49 +33, AGI: 42 + 25, ATK: 183 (Waist: Mer. Cpt. Belt -> Swordbelt +1)

SATA 1: 426
SATA 2: 382
SATA 3: 475
SATA 4: 393
SATA 5: 414
SATA 6: 383
SATA 7: 478
SATA 8: 389
SATA 9: 416
SATA10:487


Highest Damage: 487
Lowest Damage: 382
Average Damage: 425


Experiment #3
DEX: 49 +33, AGI: 42 + 22, ATK: 186 (Ear: Drone Earring -> Beetle Earring +1)

SATA 1: 510
SATA 2: 503
SATA 3: 459
SATA 4: 453
SATA 5: 461
SATA 6: 381
SATA 7: 371
SATA 8: 375
SATA 9: 382
SATA10:441


Highest Damage: 510
Lowest Damage: 371
Average Damage: 485


Experiment #4
DEX: 49 +33, AGI: 42 +18, ATK: 189 (Ear: Genin Earring -> Beetle Earring +1)

SATA 1: 354
SATA 2: 388
SATA 3: 388
SATA 4: 403
SATA 5: 436
SATA 6: 449
SATA 7: 406
SATA 8: 480
SATA 9: 428
SATA10:382


Highest Damage: 480
Lowest Damage: 382
Average Damage: 411


* It seems to me that AGI has gone below the immaginary cap, of course this is speculation*

To see if AGI is indeed below the immaginary cap I will decease AGI without touching DEX by swapping from Magna M Chausses -> Noct Brais +1 (the only difference here is 2 AGI) If theory holds correct the next set of numbers will be small, as in more toward the 300 - lower 400 range) If this holds true I'm going to keep the Genin Earring on and move toward decrease DEX to it's imaginary cap while replacing ATK in it's place

Experiment #5
DEX: 49 +33, AGI: 42 +16, ATK: 189 (Legs: Magna M Chausses -> Noct Brais +1)

SATA 1: 463
SATA 2: 463
SATA 3: 386
SATA 4: 429
SATA 5: 349
SATA 6: 406
SATA 7: 368
SATA 8: 336
SATA 9: 416
SATA10:470


Highest Damage: 470
Lowest Damage: 336
Average Damage: 408


I do believe that I've gone or am at the AGI's immaginary cap. So my next stage of testing I'll reapply the Genin or Drone (depending on my SJ) and begin dropping my DEX to it's immaginary cap while replacing ATK in those slots. I'm tired so that's all for today

More later

I know the fourm won't accept what I'm saying without proof. I have screenshots that I am highlighting and labeling so I can upload them easier and for you to see. If anyone sees anything wrong my experiment PLEASE let me know.

[Zempten]

Re: Viper Bite

Hm. . . I just realized a possible flaw in my testing.

Perhaps I should have just taken off the AGI+ items first, record those numbers until I hit the AGI immaginary cap, then proceed with ATK+ items.

Any thoughts?

[Lmnop]

Re: Viper Bite

I assume these are all against the same mob type in the same zone?

And yes, you should try testing w/out earrings or belt period and test and then add the attack equip.

[Zempten]

Re: Viper Bite

The tests are against Spiders in Quicksand Caves. I choose Spiders because this is where most people exp at and also that they don't have any Defense Boost.

I am going to do the -AGI as much as I can (as in -AGI by a factor of 1 as much as I can with my equipment) and still use the last set of data as a reference point.

Please give me some time ^^

[Zempten]

Re: Viper Bite

In this set of experiments, I've only decreased AGI, without altering anything else. Here are the experiments. . .

Location: Quicksand Caves
Target : Sand Spider
Food : Squid Sushi

Avg Dmg vs Total Avg Dmg: Average Damage is based on the first SATA I land on the mob, where as Total Average Damage is based on all of them. When you look at the list below you will see some SATA with a "b" after it mean it's the 2nd SATA on the same mob.


Experiment #1
DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 26

SATA 1: 362 Proof
SATA 2: 388 Proof
SATA 3: 432 Proof
SATA 4: 420 Proof
SATA 5: 441 Proof
SATA 6: 408 Proof
SATA 7: 403 Proof
SATA 8: 438 Proof
SATA 9: 460 Proof
SATA10: 391 Proof

Highes Damage:460
Lowest Damage: 362
Average Damage: 414.3
Total Average Damage: 414.3


Experiment #2
DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 25 *Back:Nomad Mantle removed*

SATA 1: 371 Proof
SATA 2: 375 Proof
SATA 3: 468 Proof
SATA 4: 412 Proof
SATA 5: 423 Proof
SATA 6: 472 Proof
SATA 7: 372 Proof
SATA 8: 374 Proof
SATA 9: 470 Proof
SATA10: 505 Proof
SATA10b:448 Proof

Highes Damage: 505
Lowest Damage: 371
Average Damage: 424.2
Total Average Damage: 426.4

Experiment #3
DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 24 *Back:Nomad Mantle equipped, Legs:Magna M Chausses -> Noct Brais +1*

SATA 1 : 477 Proof
SATA 1b: 388 Proof
SATA 2 : 489 Proof
SATA 3 : 451 Proof
SATA 3b: 411 Proof
SATA 4 : 434 Proof
SATA 5 : 418 Proof
SATA5b : 350 Proof
SATA 6 : 445 Proof
SATA 7 : 353 Proof
SATA7b : 435 Proof
SATA 8 : 395 Proof
SATA8b : 397 Proof
SATA 9 : 424 Proof
SATA10 : 413 Proof

Highest Damage:489
Lowest Damage:350
Average Damage: 429.9
Total Average Damage: 418.7


Experiment #4
DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 23 *Legs:Magna M Chausses equipped, Ear: Drone Earring removed*

SATA1 : 434 Proof
SATA2 : 460 Proof
SATA3 : 393 Proof
SATA4 : 352 Proof
SATA5 : 308 Proof
SATA6 : 489 Proof
SATA6b: 470 Proof
SATA7 : 395 Proof
SATA7b: 410 Proof
SATA8 : 362 Proof
SATA9 : 405 Proof
SATA10: 473 Proof

Highest Damage: 489
Lowest Damage: 308
Average Damage: 407.1
Total Average Damage:413.6

Losing 3 AGI does not seem to make that BIG of a difference in my average damage, I'll keep testing and see when it will

[Zempten]

Re: Viper Bite

Experiment #5
Dex: 49 +34, Agi: 42 + 22 *Ear1: Genin Earring off, Ear2 :Drone Earring on*

SATA 1 : 412
SATA 1b : 382
SATA 2 : 456
SATA 2b : 448
SATA 3 : 420
SATA 3b : 475
SATA 4 : 393
SATA 4b : 416
SATA 5 : 413
SATA 5b : 385
SATA 6 : 359
SATA 6b : 470
SATA 7 : 459
SATA 7b : 440
SATA 8 : 402
SATA 8b : 415
SATA 9 : 420
SATA 9b : 353
SATA 10 : 439
SATA 10b: 416

Highest Damage: 475
Lowest Damage: 353
Average Damage: 417.3
Total Average Damage: 418.65

Experiment #6
Dex: 49 +34, Agi: 42 + 21 *Back: Nomad Mantle off*

SATA 1 : 437
SATA 1b : 374
SATA 2 : 460
SATA 2b : 401
SATA 3 : 477
SATA 3b : 399
SATA 4 : 459
SATA 4b : 355
SATA 5 : 431
SATA 6 : 374
SATA 7 : 381
SATA 7b : 416
SATA 8 : 370
SATA 8b : 486
SATA 9 : 427
SATA 10 : 429
SATA 10b: 324

Highest Damage: 486
Lowest Damage: 324
Average Damage: 424.5
Total Average Damage: 411.76

Experiment #7
Dex: 49 +34, Agi: 42 + 20 *Back: Thug's Zamburak off*

SATA 1 : 454
SATA 2 : 356
SATA 2b : 389
SATA 2c : 381
SATA 3 : 411
SATA 3b : 421
SATA 4 : 362
SATA 4b : 434
SATA 5 : 428
SATA 5b : 431
SATA 6 : 372
SATA 6b : 404
SATA 7 : 470
SATA 7b : 414
SATA 8 : 389
SATA 8b : 362
SATA 8c : 414
SATA 8d : 384
SATA 9 : 401
SATA 9b : 333
SATA 9c : 396
SATA 10 : 434
SATA 10b : 469

Highest Damage: 470
Lowest Damage: 333
Average Damage: 407.7
Total Average Damage: 404.7


It seems as if losing 6 to AGI doesn't hurt the average damage by too much

I'm sorry guys, I'll post the URLs later. I'm just too tired.

[Zempten]

Re: Viper Bite

Well I got a little impatient today so I decided to try out some attack pts till I could reach 300 Attack and use the other spots for DEX, since AGI doesn't seem that great of a difference, unfortunatly it turns out this experiment has been a waste. See for yourself

My Gear
SATA 1
SATA 2
SATA 3
SATA 4
SATA 5

However I did find out that Sushi is a much better form of accuracy then Sniper Rings (2) and Battle Gloves.

[Last_Viper]

Re: Viper Bite

Nice testing around

those spider are checked IT to you, or even VT i guess??

something to think about.. you have a ATT/DEV cap, if your attack will go over this, you will not any more dmg.. with 300 ATT, VP = 600??

i think it`s more then well balced stats (since your ATT is doubled, maybe focus should be more on dex+agi)

if you take a look at the calculation on the WS

dmg 15
STR 57
DEX 73
AGI 56
ATT 301
Mob (not sure about this stats)
VIT 60
DEF 220

(((dmg +str-vit + attribute) * TP bonus +DEX +AGI) * ATT/DEF) * critical
str-vit caps @ 0 - (dmg/9+8)
ATT/DEF caps @ 2.4

So, every point of dex/agi will be multiplied with ATT/DEF

(((15) * TP bonus + 129) * 2.4) * 1,25 = 432
so more ATT boost will end up in nothing, more dex/agi boost will end up in 3 DMG per point. more str depends on mob and cap. more dagger dmg will end up in 3 DMG and higher STR-VIT cap.

i like your testing very much, but since att is doubled + buffs on mob in EXP PT that lowers DEF and there is a cap of ATT/DEF, it`s not that important to raise ATT. go with the highest dmg dagger in first hand and SATA the mobs to hell

the vit and def is coming from my mind ^^ so there are different sts in real. but for ma mithra it`s nearly impossible as THF to reach the point where STR gives more dmg, i switch for every SATA to all my dex+agi gear.

and in the end, sorry for my bad english :D

[Tokitoki]

Re: Viper Bite

I didnt focus on ATK until after Shark Bite... ure i had some attk gear but i never tried to really boost it very high. With as much DEX/AGI gear as i could get/afford/saw fit I do remember getting over 700 VBs on raptors, but before that i really dont remember... Just try to focus on your DEX/AGI for now, even at lv 74 i dont have much more than 350 atk lol

[Zempten]

Re: Viper Bite

That's funny, didn't realize there was an attack cap . . .

Yeah the spiders were ALL IT and High Defense