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  • Viper Bite

    Hello

    I was reading thru the WS chart (The one named Weapon Skill Data, Formulae, and Testing) and looking at the THF's WS Viper Bite. I noticed that they said

    Dagger WS: Viper Bite
    100% 200% 300%: 1.00
    #Hits: 1
    Secondary Attribute: ATK X2
    TP Adjustment: More Poison

    Well, as common knowledge it is important to stack up as much DEX and AGI as you can for a SATA WS, however if the attribute for the WS is ATK x 2, then can it be possible to achieve higher damage by concentrating more on ATK then on DEX and AGI?

    The reason I ask this is because I noticed last night while on Quicksand Caves my Viper Bite was achieving a normal around the higher 300s and lower 400s and randomly hitting over 500 on mainly spiders and beetles. Well the 300 and 400s is exactly the value of my ATK times 2.

    So has anyone tested this out?

    BTW, if you want to look for the Weapon Skill Data thread it is http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...pon+Skill+Data
    (That's what it says on the bottom of my printed copy)

  • #2
    Re: Viper Bite

    i noticed that on my thf aswell...sometimes id do like 500 orso and moslty 300-400 but i think the dex/agi would be better than attack
    WAR75/ MNK45/ WHM38/ RDM6/ DRG13/ RNG42/ BLM21/ THF45 /SAM22 /NIN53 /BRD64 /DRK11 /SMN12/BST28/ PLD13/18 BLU/17 COR/1 PUP

    "The man all the ladies want."

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Viper Bite

      Originally posted by Akai
      i noticed that on my thf aswell...sometimes id do like 500 orso and moslty 300-400 but i think the dex/agi would be better than attack
      If more people say that I'm going to think about testing wether there is an actually DEX and AGI cap

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Viper Bite

        Originally posted by Zempten
        If more people say that I'm going to think about testing wether there is an actually DEX and AGI cap
        my viperbites are real random as well.
        i have +25 dex and +21 agi at lv. 35 and my viper bites do anywhere from 300-500 dmg. all fighting the same mobs too, bats.

        not really much +atk equipment at the moment. any high lv. thfs have anything to add? +atk or dex/agi to stabalize viperbite numbers...
        Omni@Remora: NIN75 RNG75 MNK75 COR75 BST64 BRD53
        ♪♫ San d'Oria Complete ♪♫ ZM Complete ♪♫ CoP Complete ♪♫ AM Complete ♪♫

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Viper Bite

          Okay, well if I'm going to setup a Controlled Setting I'm going to need help. As I've never done testing with meele before.

          I think I'm going to take on the spiders in the quicksand area. I'll try to do about 10 fights with each equipment setting (as in gradually increasing attack while losing DEX and AGI). I think I'm going to try to lose the AGI first since from what others tell me AGI isn't that importantly until I get Assassin at 60, which by then Dancing Edge is a different ball game.

          As far as food is concern, I want to stick with Squid Sushi for as long as possible because of the grants to DEX, AGI, and Accuracy. However if I need to I'll use Meat Mithakabobs if my Attack is below 200. If it is greater then 200 then I'll use Dhamel Stew as indicated by ffxi.somepage.com 's food section. Hopefully my snipers and battle gloves will allow me to still get TP at a decent rate.

          Another thing that I might try is that if ATK indeed plays a bigger role. . . I might just SJ DRG for the Haste Earring (for TP gain) and the Attack Mantle, which would also allow me to use a Strike Shield (Viking? LOL, I'm too poor . . . for now =P) for a bit more added attack. Plus a Attack Bonus JT too ^^

          Wish me luck? ^^ I'll probably have results in 2 to 3 days. I don't get to play as much.

          If any higher lvl THFs have done this before, it would help ^^

          P.S: If anyone can help me make a better "control expereiment" I would appreciate it ^^ I don't want to do this and then be told that all my testing has like 50 billion unknow merits.

          Double Post Edited:
          Oh just thought about WAR's Berserk . . . wow the possibilities. . . but which will work? or will old traditions continue to live? ^^

          I think the order of testing will go as THF/NIN, THF/WAR, and then THF/DRG.
          Last edited by Zempten; 08-19-2005, 11:38 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Viper Bite

            Here is my equipment raised to the highest DEX and AGI that I can think of


            Main: Marauder's Knife
            Sub: Calveley's Dagger
            Ranged: Thug's Zamburak
            Ammo: Bloody Bolts (No acid bolts because I want pure results)
            Head: Emperor Hairping
            Neck: Spike Necklace
            Ear1: Genin Earring
            Ear2: Drone Earring
            Body: Brigandine Armor +1
            Hand: Magna Gauntlets
            Ring1: Deft Ring
            Ring2: Deft Ring
            Back: Nomad Mantle
            Waist: Mercenary Captain's Belt
            Legs: Magna M Chausses
            Feet: Leaping Boots



            Okay here we go

            Testing Day 1 - THF/NIN

            Experiment #1
            DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 26, ATK: 171

            SATA 1: 362
            SATA 2: 388
            SATA 3: 432
            SATA 4: 420
            SATA 5: 441
            SATA 6: 408
            SATA 7: 403
            SATA 8: 438
            SATA 9: 460
            SATA10:391


            Highes Damage:460
            Lowest Damage: 362
            Average Damage: 414


            Experiment #2
            DEX: 49 +33, AGI: 42 + 25, ATK: 183 (Waist: Mer. Cpt. Belt -> Swordbelt +1)

            SATA 1: 426
            SATA 2: 382
            SATA 3: 475
            SATA 4: 393
            SATA 5: 414
            SATA 6: 383
            SATA 7: 478
            SATA 8: 389
            SATA 9: 416
            SATA10:487


            Highest Damage: 487
            Lowest Damage: 382
            Average Damage: 425


            Experiment #3
            DEX: 49 +33, AGI: 42 + 22, ATK: 186 (Ear: Drone Earring -> Beetle Earring +1)

            SATA 1: 510
            SATA 2: 503
            SATA 3: 459
            SATA 4: 453
            SATA 5: 461
            SATA 6: 381
            SATA 7: 371
            SATA 8: 375
            SATA 9: 382
            SATA10:441


            Highest Damage: 510
            Lowest Damage: 371
            Average Damage: 485


            Experiment #4
            DEX: 49 +33, AGI: 42 +18, ATK: 189 (Ear: Genin Earring -> Beetle Earring +1)

            SATA 1: 354
            SATA 2: 388
            SATA 3: 388
            SATA 4: 403
            SATA 5: 436
            SATA 6: 449
            SATA 7: 406
            SATA 8: 480
            SATA 9: 428
            SATA10:382


            Highest Damage: 480
            Lowest Damage: 382
            Average Damage: 411


            * It seems to me that AGI has gone below the immaginary cap, of course this is speculation*

            To see if AGI is indeed below the immaginary cap I will decease AGI without touching DEX by swapping from Magna M Chausses -> Noct Brais +1 (the only difference here is 2 AGI) If theory holds correct the next set of numbers will be small, as in more toward the 300 - lower 400 range) If this holds true I'm going to keep the Genin Earring on and move toward decrease DEX to it's imaginary cap while replacing ATK in it's place

            Experiment #5
            DEX: 49 +33, AGI: 42 +16, ATK: 189 (Legs: Magna M Chausses -> Noct Brais +1)

            SATA 1: 463
            SATA 2: 463
            SATA 3: 386
            SATA 4: 429
            SATA 5: 349
            SATA 6: 406
            SATA 7: 368
            SATA 8: 336
            SATA 9: 416
            SATA10:470


            Highest Damage: 470
            Lowest Damage: 336
            Average Damage: 408


            I do believe that I've gone or am at the AGI's immaginary cap. So my next stage of testing I'll reapply the Genin or Drone (depending on my SJ) and begin dropping my DEX to it's immaginary cap while replacing ATK in those slots. I'm tired so that's all for today

            More later

            I know the fourm won't accept what I'm saying without proof. I have screenshots that I am highlighting and labeling so I can upload them easier and for you to see. If anyone sees anything wrong my experiment PLEASE let me know.
            Last edited by Zempten; 08-20-2005, 08:12 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Viper Bite

              Hm. . . I just realized a possible flaw in my testing.

              Perhaps I should have just taken off the AGI+ items first, record those numbers until I hit the AGI immaginary cap, then proceed with ATK+ items.

              Any thoughts?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Viper Bite

                I assume these are all against the same mob type in the same zone?

                And yes, you should try testing w/out earrings or belt period and test and then add the attack equip.
                "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Viper Bite

                  The tests are against Spiders in Quicksand Caves. I choose Spiders because this is where most people exp at and also that they don't have any Defense Boost.

                  I am going to do the -AGI as much as I can (as in -AGI by a factor of 1 as much as I can with my equipment) and still use the last set of data as a reference point.

                  Please give me some time ^^

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Viper Bite

                    In this set of experiments, I've only decreased AGI, without altering anything else. Here are the experiments. . .

                    Location: Quicksand Caves
                    Target : Sand Spider
                    Food : Squid Sushi

                    Avg Dmg vs Total Avg Dmg: Average Damage is based on the first SATA I land on the mob, where as Total Average Damage is based on all of them. When you look at the list below you will see some SATA with a "b" after it mean it's the 2nd SATA on the same mob.


                    Experiment #1
                    DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 26

                    SATA 1: 362 Proof
                    SATA 2: 388 Proof
                    SATA 3: 432 Proof
                    SATA 4: 420 Proof
                    SATA 5: 441 Proof
                    SATA 6: 408 Proof
                    SATA 7: 403 Proof
                    SATA 8: 438 Proof
                    SATA 9: 460 Proof
                    SATA10: 391 Proof

                    Highes Damage:460
                    Lowest Damage: 362
                    Average Damage: 414.3
                    Total Average Damage: 414.3


                    Experiment #2
                    DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 25 *Back:Nomad Mantle removed*

                    SATA 1: 371 Proof
                    SATA 2: 375 Proof
                    SATA 3: 468 Proof
                    SATA 4: 412 Proof
                    SATA 5: 423 Proof
                    SATA 6: 472 Proof
                    SATA 7: 372 Proof
                    SATA 8: 374 Proof
                    SATA 9: 470 Proof
                    SATA10: 505 Proof
                    SATA10b:448 Proof

                    Highes Damage: 505
                    Lowest Damage: 371
                    Average Damage: 424.2
                    Total Average Damage: 426.4

                    Experiment #3
                    DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 24 *Back:Nomad Mantle equipped, Legs:Magna M Chausses -> Noct Brais +1*

                    SATA 1 : 477 Proof
                    SATA 1b: 388 Proof
                    SATA 2 : 489 Proof
                    SATA 3 : 451 Proof
                    SATA 3b: 411 Proof
                    SATA 4 : 434 Proof
                    SATA 5 : 418 Proof
                    SATA5b : 350 Proof
                    SATA 6 : 445 Proof
                    SATA 7 : 353 Proof
                    SATA7b : 435 Proof
                    SATA 8 : 395 Proof
                    SATA8b : 397 Proof
                    SATA 9 : 424 Proof
                    SATA10 : 413 Proof

                    Highest Damage:489
                    Lowest Damage:350
                    Average Damage: 429.9
                    Total Average Damage: 418.7


                    Experiment #4
                    DEX: 49 +34 , AGI: 42 + 23 *Legs:Magna M Chausses equipped, Ear: Drone Earring removed*

                    SATA1 : 434 Proof
                    SATA2 : 460 Proof
                    SATA3 : 393 Proof
                    SATA4 : 352 Proof
                    SATA5 : 308 Proof
                    SATA6 : 489 Proof
                    SATA6b: 470 Proof
                    SATA7 : 395 Proof
                    SATA7b: 410 Proof
                    SATA8 : 362 Proof
                    SATA9 : 405 Proof
                    SATA10: 473 Proof

                    Highest Damage: 489
                    Lowest Damage: 308
                    Average Damage: 407.1
                    Total Average Damage:413.6

                    Losing 3 AGI does not seem to make that BIG of a difference in my average damage, I'll keep testing and see when it will
                    Last edited by Zempten; 08-21-2005, 02:08 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Viper Bite

                      Experiment #5
                      Dex: 49 +34, Agi: 42 + 22 *Ear1: Genin Earring off, Ear2 :Drone Earring on*

                      SATA 1 : 412
                      SATA 1b : 382
                      SATA 2 : 456
                      SATA 2b : 448
                      SATA 3 : 420
                      SATA 3b : 475
                      SATA 4 : 393
                      SATA 4b : 416
                      SATA 5 : 413
                      SATA 5b : 385
                      SATA 6 : 359
                      SATA 6b : 470
                      SATA 7 : 459
                      SATA 7b : 440
                      SATA 8 : 402
                      SATA 8b : 415
                      SATA 9 : 420
                      SATA 9b : 353
                      SATA 10 : 439
                      SATA 10b: 416

                      Highest Damage: 475
                      Lowest Damage: 353
                      Average Damage: 417.3
                      Total Average Damage: 418.65

                      Experiment #6
                      Dex: 49 +34, Agi: 42 + 21 *Back: Nomad Mantle off*

                      SATA 1 : 437
                      SATA 1b : 374
                      SATA 2 : 460
                      SATA 2b : 401
                      SATA 3 : 477
                      SATA 3b : 399
                      SATA 4 : 459
                      SATA 4b : 355
                      SATA 5 : 431
                      SATA 6 : 374
                      SATA 7 : 381
                      SATA 7b : 416
                      SATA 8 : 370
                      SATA 8b : 486
                      SATA 9 : 427
                      SATA 10 : 429
                      SATA 10b: 324

                      Highest Damage: 486
                      Lowest Damage: 324
                      Average Damage: 424.5
                      Total Average Damage: 411.76

                      Experiment #7
                      Dex: 49 +34, Agi: 42 + 20 *Back: Thug's Zamburak off*

                      SATA 1 : 454
                      SATA 2 : 356
                      SATA 2b : 389
                      SATA 2c : 381
                      SATA 3 : 411
                      SATA 3b : 421
                      SATA 4 : 362
                      SATA 4b : 434
                      SATA 5 : 428
                      SATA 5b : 431
                      SATA 6 : 372
                      SATA 6b : 404
                      SATA 7 : 470
                      SATA 7b : 414
                      SATA 8 : 389
                      SATA 8b : 362
                      SATA 8c : 414
                      SATA 8d : 384
                      SATA 9 : 401
                      SATA 9b : 333
                      SATA 9c : 396
                      SATA 10 : 434
                      SATA 10b : 469

                      Highest Damage: 470
                      Lowest Damage: 333
                      Average Damage: 407.7
                      Total Average Damage: 404.7


                      It seems as if losing 6 to AGI doesn't hurt the average damage by too much

                      I'm sorry guys, I'll post the URLs later. I'm just too tired.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Viper Bite

                        Well I got a little impatient today so I decided to try out some attack pts till I could reach 300 Attack and use the other spots for DEX, since AGI doesn't seem that great of a difference, unfortunatly it turns out this experiment has been a waste. See for yourself

                        My Gear
                        SATA 1
                        SATA 2
                        SATA 3
                        SATA 4
                        SATA 5

                        However I did find out that Sushi is a much better form of accuracy then Sniper Rings (2) and Battle Gloves.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Viper Bite

                          Nice testing around

                          those spider are checked IT to you, or even VT i guess??

                          something to think about.. you have a ATT/DEV cap, if your attack will go over this, you will not any more dmg.. with 300 ATT, VP = 600??

                          i think it`s more then well balced stats (since your ATT is doubled, maybe focus should be more on dex+agi)

                          if you take a look at the calculation on the WS

                          dmg 15
                          STR 57
                          DEX 73
                          AGI 56
                          ATT 301
                          Mob (not sure about this stats)
                          VIT 60
                          DEF 220

                          (((dmg +str-vit + attribute) * TP bonus +DEX +AGI) * ATT/DEF) * critical
                          str-vit caps @ 0 - (dmg/9+8)
                          ATT/DEF caps @ 2.4

                          So, every point of dex/agi will be multiplied with ATT/DEF

                          (((15) * TP bonus + 129) * 2.4) * 1,25 = 432
                          so more ATT boost will end up in nothing, more dex/agi boost will end up in 3 DMG per point. more str depends on mob and cap. more dagger dmg will end up in 3 DMG and higher STR-VIT cap.

                          i like your testing very much, but since att is doubled + buffs on mob in EXP PT that lowers DEF and there is a cap of ATT/DEF, it`s not that important to raise ATT. go with the highest dmg dagger in first hand and SATA the mobs to hell

                          the vit and def is coming from my mind ^^ so there are different sts in real. but for ma mithra it`s nearly impossible as THF to reach the point where STR gives more dmg, i switch for every SATA to all my dex+agi gear.

                          and in the end, sorry for my bad english :D
                          Monchichie

                          Ayumie

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Viper Bite

                            I didnt focus on ATK until after Shark Bite... ure i had some attk gear but i never tried to really boost it very high. With as much DEX/AGI gear as i could get/afford/saw fit I do remember getting over 700 VBs on raptors, but before that i really dont remember... Just try to focus on your DEX/AGI for now, even at lv 74 i dont have much more than 350 atk lol


                            Warrior TP Warrior WS

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                            • #15
                              Re: Viper Bite

                              That's funny, didn't realize there was an attack cap . . .

                              Yeah the spiders were ALL IT and High Defense

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