Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

[Weeeekujata]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

This is off topic but :D
I used to think thief was not DD job when I was leveling it the 1st time, I used to be using drone earring etc, that was 2year ago, stopped @ 45, 3 weeks ago I picked it up, and well I was suprised with the proper gear, they can deal impressive dot.

Anyways I wanted to share this with you guys :D

Here is one:
http://staronionbrigade.com/weeee/de/de02.jpg
lV 64
Look right after howling fist and see what my dagger hit about .(this is with cement knife +1 on hedgehog) Dhamels and goblin are in low 40's the occaisonal high lvl dhamels would reduce me to low 30's sometimes high 20's.


This is my new record as of today:
lV 67
http://staronionbrigade.com/weeee/de/de04.jpg

my avrg DE on bids is 1100 at the moment, getting frequent 1200-1300's.(since 64) Goblins 800-1000 dhamels same, for some reason when dhamel zerked dmg is not a huge difference :/

My sharkbite @ 100 tp
is about 800-1000 on gobs/dhamel
On birds 1000-1100

Eviscaration 100 tp
gob dhamel 800-100~
birds 900~
I didnt test evisc much.

I am looking so forward to harpe dmg, on the otherhand the delay is a turn off though :S

I dont get to test sharkbite much as there is not many ranger warrior drg's

[Karinya]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

I am glad you agree with me on exactly why Cotehardie is the better choice. With a 50% modifier, you are only increasing your damage by adding more DEX. Most THFs use Cotehardie until they either obtain Hecatomb Harness or Dragon Harness. Unless ATT is one of the modifiers in a WS, increasing your ATT for that ws is just pointless.

ATT affects ALL ws except the elemental ones (gust slash, burning blade, etc.) and special ones (spirits within, energy drain, etc.), just like weapon damage and str do. Stat modifiers have some effect too, of course, but the effect of DMG, STR and ATT are universal on all physical WS.

This is really obvious if you have tried berserk SATAVB vs. non-berserk SATAVB, and still applies at higher levels too.

Hecatomb serves a specific function. Most THFs want Hecatomb for the nice combination of DEX and STR. Also, there are two sides of the THF fence most people fall on.

Side A: THFs are supposed to be TP speed demons, using only the fastest weapons and equipment for TP gain, sacrificing damage for increased number of WS.

Side B: THFs should concentrate on DOT (Damage Over Time) and stronger weapon skills.

The quickest way to tell these apart is that side A thieves always sub NIN, and side B thieves sub WAR whenever it won't kill them.

I'll go with Side C: Both of these factors are important and over-emphasizing either at the expense of the other will lead to lower overall performance.

Getting TP faster than your partner or faster than SATA is useless (the bonus of additional TP will usually be outweighed by the ATT or stats you gave up to get that faster TP generation) and in addition ACC has diminishing returns (you'll never actually get 100%, and approaching it asymptotically means that each acc point is helping you less than the previous one).

On the other hand if you have a lot of atk but only get TP once every 2 minutes, your overall output may be lower than if you weren't missing so much.

There are IMO a lot of people, not just thieves, already on the excessive ACC emphasis side of this spectrum; while a lot of people complain when they miss one attack in 10, it's been a long time since I saw someone with *real* acc problems. Parsers reveal that most of the damage done in a typical party is normal hit damage.

In fact you should probably have gear alternatives in a couple slots so you can shift from an acc-heavy setup to a damage-heavy setup depending on the situation (in addition to switching to atk/str/dex gear for WS). You don't need a lot of acc to hit a VT, or to hit a crab even if it is IT; acc gear is less important with a bard, or with sushi.

[Zempten]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

Wee, post your gear please ^^

Do we get Evisc at 67? If so I'll finish up the quest on my RDM

[Kaickul]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

Look right after howling fist and see what my dagger hit about .(this is with cement knife +1 on hedgehog) Dhamels and goblin are in low 40's the occaisonal high lvl dhamels would reduce me to low 30's sometimes high 20's.

my avrg DE on bids is 1100 at the moment, getting frequent 1200-1300's.(since 64) Goblins 800-1000 dhamels same, for some reason when dhamel zerked dmg is not a huge difference :/

Those are flying mobs, which are weak to pierce, so youll always do impressive damage to those.

ATT affects ALL ws except the elemental ones (gust slash, burning blade, etc.) and special ones (spirits within, energy drain, etc.), just like weapon damage and str do. Stat modifiers have some effect too, of course, but the effect of DMG, STR and ATT are universal on all physical WS.

Let me reinterate...
In response to the OP who was asking which is better for Shark Bite whose 50% DEX modifier would be considered the main focus, adding more attack with the Assualt Jerkin vs the Cotehardie would be pointless since adding more ATT would be neglecting the main modifier. So therefore, adding more ATT to Shark Bite and neglecting DEX to try and increase damage, is pointless.

As for the /war vs /nin Ive seen a few posts that give output from same mobs, same amount of time, etc and the difference in damage totals for the time period amounts to 150-250 damage more with /war. To me thats not an overwhelming case for either being better.

[Lmnop]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

net.drifter, While you're right about dex being the awesome 50% modifier, I think you should read Weeee's first post. I think that more dex would lead to more potentiall devastating SBs, but I believe you would get more consistency from AJ, unless of course, your attack is already good enough as Weeee said.

The WS modifiers are nice, but they're not the end-all-be-all. Nny has had some discussions on SATA Steel Cyclone, and how people want to balance VIT and STR (both 50% mods on it), when they should be favoring STR since it has such obviously potent results on ANY WS. Of course, it's much more clear-cut for the big, dumb warrior. All they ever need to worry about is STR and hitting like a mac truck. But I think the same concept applies to THF WSs in that first you want to juice up your normal WS stats (Str/attack in this case, add in Acc for DE) and then focus on driving your WS into the ground via the modifiers.

btw, highest Steel Cyclone screens i've seen were done in non-ideal gear for it. So much for gear...

[Weeeekujata]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

_______________________________________________________
Wee, post your gear please ^^

Do we get Evisc at 67? If so I'll finish up the quest on my RDM
_______________________________________________________
yes you do

as of 70:
Harpe/Viking shield
optical hat/emp pin
spike/tiger
AJ,SH, Blue cote +1
Snipers/grace
life, swordbelt+1
republic sub/thf culotte thingie
war gloves +1/merman mitten
tiger lendersen/leaping
lightning bow+1(xp pt)
mermans earring/minuet-cassie
amemeit +1
i think thats it for tp/solo
i use food depending on how i hit mob/dmg ratio


I came to a conclusion:
I liked AJ a lot, but as I party with my girlfriends bard all the time and use /war
I finally got a Cotehardie+1 and I think its great if your gear is well rounded.
I will only switch to AJ if I fight mobs thats too strong for my attack rating from now on, which is getting rare as I reach closer to 75.

Personally I still like DE, and have stuck to it so far. I will opt to use sb more @ 72 since we get martial dagger. ill still keep my harpe for DE :p


Thief has been very confusing to me so far, but I learned a lot more with this job in the offensive technique.