Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

[Tokitoki]

Im bringing this up because some people have been saying that the ATK from the assault jerkin is better than the DEX STR and AGI from the cote. I was planning on getting the jerkin anyway for TP gain when i cant use my friend's sharness but which is better for Shark Bite in your opinion?

[DelennFFXI]

Depends on what you're fighting, the rest of your equip, and definitely food (if you go sushi, you want the Assault Jerkin, badly).

Definitely Assault Jerkin if you're xping on IT mobs you're not capping attack on (for me, base xp ~175+).

If you'd rather fast chain VTs, you might want the cotehardie depending on the rest of your equip setup.

However, I'd rather keep the Assault Jerkin and remove attack from other equipment slots to boost uncappable stats if possible. This is because +18 on one piece is massive

[Ixaera]

I'd be quite surprised if there was much difference at all on sharkbite with blue cote as opposed to assault jerkin. At 67, I felt my sharkbites were stronger with the jerkin (versus black cote)...so I never bothered with the blue cote since the stat gains in the upgrade aren't that hot.

I tend to load up on attack though, which is really nice in my set because since we're low damage, we focus on fast VT-low IT chains, and I can get enough attack to pretty much cap out on those mobs, and do really nice damage *all the time*...no 500 sharkbites for me...unless something stupid happens like missing sata.

The drawback to focusing on attack is that your cap is somewhat lower than if you focused on dex/agi. But, that's a small price to pay, IMO, for constant, consistent, high damage, rather than mediocre damage 50% of the time, decent damage 20% of the time, crap damage 28% of the time, and omfgwtfxbbq damage like 2% of the time.

[Zempten]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

So does this mean the main thing we should focus on now (66+ when using Shark Bite) is ATK and then followed by STR?

[qaitakalnin]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

aye? arent the +dex and agi multipliers for the SATA ws more than the jerkin? i do agree thought that using for consistant dmg until SATA, i mean that is what equip macros are for right?

[Weeeekujata]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

Swrd belt+1 was much better for me than knight belt
I sold my flora last night and going to use my Free assault jerkin thats been collecting dust I suspect dmg will be higher noticibly.

After extensive research, different opinion`s, several testing. I have found that attack indeed is underrated. dont prioritize it on the otherhand. balance it.

In my xp pt`s at the moment I am sitting on 545 attack with a bard and berserk. using hedgehog pie(far my favorite food now, but this debate is not about food) with proper accuracy tp build you will hit fairly often AND hard. I am not using assault jerkin at the moment. I will after my next xp session, tiamat and dynamis have kept me busy.

Assault Jerkin with a bard and berserk and hedgehog should put me fairly close to 600 attack. 450-500 ish without zerk.

My Priority in general is:
DEX<->STR->ATK->ACC in any slot possible for WS dex and str depends, I mean if you have a item slot with 4 dex, and the other with +9 str, I think I would go with the +9 STR if it has no deducting stats. possibly both stats in 1 slot is nice.

I dont concentrate on AGI if I can replace it with STR or DEX.



Anyways all that blah blah to say I would go Assault Jerkin. 18 Attack is something not to scoff about. The Reason WHY you would do much better with Assault Jerkin in a xp pt would be due to the fact your WS will be CONSISTENT and hit the UPPER TIER DMG point.

a example(made up numbers but explains what attack actually does):

A) SB with low attack: 1100,700,853,1300,674,707,900,633,985

B) SB with Balanced Atk+STR+DEX: 1150,1050,1175,1200,1000,1200

What we notice is the jumps in the shark bite from A) is due to your attack is not getting past the mobs defense. 1300 & 1100 would be due to your hitting a weaker mob, hence going over his defense, but even than it will be inconsistent unless its noticibly lower lvl. the rest 600-900 would be for example goblins where you can overcome its defense.

In B) we notice consistent we may not hit 1300 but we are a lot more consistent and reliable on dmg rating.

This was infact what I did notice with atk/sushi food etc. and I would say gear would have a indeed same effect.

by concentrating on a bit of attack here and there by SATA WS would go from 600-1000(1k rare on sushi :s) to 900-1000 and would be purely noticible.

THE CONCLUSION:

ATK+DEX+STR if you notice CONSTANT HIGH #'s add in some DEX/STR for a maximum dmg output, ONCE you notice your overall dmg SUDDENLY DIPS it means your loosing too much attack.

Attack can be ignored for mobs that you have greatly surpassed there defense. and you can put some sexy number without actually working on your attack.

Ill show you guys some screenshots and parse with and without attack :p you will understand more what I mean if you dont. Work atm so ill try this weekend, but I got some pretty nice numbers that awed my last couple of pt's non stop.

[Kaickul]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

DEX is the main modifier of Shark Bite. Why would you want to up your attack?

I think Assualt Jerkin is better for Dancing Edge.

Typically with Shark Bite the order of importance starts with DEX followed by ACC because hitting that second time is what you are aiming for and really hoping for extra hits after that.

[Zempten]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

I have to agree that using Bomb Core and Swordbelt +1 did indeed make my SB a bit more consitant (400-500 ) rather then the 200-500 range.

I'm very worried about losing the accuracy % from the sushi though. I mean I do have SH, Specs, Snipers, battle gloves, life belt for TP gain, but is that really going to be enough? Especially on those annoying lizards in Den of Rancor ; ;I guess I could try it out tonight.

So hedgehog pie? I'll look more into foods with attack.

[Weeeekujata]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

sorry for this long post first

Dex is indeed a 50% modifier if I remmeber correctly for Sharbite.
And indeed your 1st hit that lands will be critical , but will your second hit will not always hit for its full capacity I believe if your attack is too low.(I might be wrong on this point if so please by all means correct me ^^)

Zemptem your tp gear is fine. But even with sushi I dont really recommend doing Den of Rancor @ 63. I remmeber back with my blm and rdm manaburning off these for High xp @ these lvls. 65+ is more suitedd.

This brings us to the point, the lizards will have high defense for your level , which you might have trouble surpassing his defense/vit where you can see a prime example of how you will have trouble reaching the "Nice" Numbers.

Here is a good test

Go up to a tormenter With a high lvl blm/rdm Friend with your WS Gear, and SA it once. note the dmg.
Now have a brd atk food, and berserk. now do a SA. do this several times to see the difference, because it will be a noticible number.

make sure its on the same mob, as mob lvl varies .

Atk in consistency, DEX is high number.

Too much DEX will do you no good sometimes if you have too low atk.

There is a reason why hectacomb is such a good WS piece, it provides a blalanced STR+DEX.

as net.drifter said DE Atk will make a great deal of difference. Sharkbite is a lot more dependant on DEX & TP(SB raises your dmg multiplier), but just dont neglect attack too much.

Remmeber Hedgehog food provides you accuracy too I think its the ideal candidate for SB.

I will try to compare the blue +1 Vs AJ nce I hit 69 and provide actual samples too see what may be actually better with my mobs I fight.

my typical setup for ws is:

Cement +1/Viking shield(Harpe and tatami waiting, working on persus, stingy nm)
e-pin
flora corthahide(actually sold this since I am about 10k to 67 as of now, change to AJ buy a blue +1 @ 69 to test)
minuet earring/cassie earring
Grace x 2
Swordbelt +1
Merman Mittens
Spike necklace
Leaping boots
AF legs(I think)
Amemenit +1
Lightning bow +1(I use xbow only for soloing, I dont fight IT++++++++ )


I have a bomb core but I keep it in bazaar and plan to use it on Gods, wyrms etc only. to buff up my Attack, and I dont want to throw it by accident

Ok bed time I will try to find a Sharkbite partner for xp tommroow. Hard to find ranger drg and warriors lately.

[Zempten]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

I'm sorry, I haven't updated my sig. It's lvl 67 rihgt now.

The thing I don't understand about the Hectacomb gear is that it has Slow, doesn't that hurt us?

[Weeeekujata]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

Hectacomb is for Weapon Skill only, so the slow is negligble :p

Typically you should have attack/acc gear for tp and WS Gear.

I am gonna reread my last post btw i wrote it very late so i might have made some mistakes.

[Kaickul]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

Sharkbite is a lot more dependant on DEX & TP(SB raises your dmg multiplier), but just dont neglect attack too much.

I am glad you agree with me on exactly why Cotehardie is the better choice. With a 50% modifier, you are only increasing your damage by adding more DEX. Most THFs use Cotehardie until they either obtain Hecatomb Harness or Dragon Harness. Unless ATT is one of the modifiers in a WS, increasing your ATT for that ws is just pointless.

The thing I don't understand about the Hectacomb gear is that it has Slow, doesn't that hurt us?

Hecatomb serves a specific function. Most THFs want Hecatomb for the nice combination of DEX and STR. Also, there are two sides of the THF fence most people fall on.

Side A: THFs are supposed to be TP speed demons, using only the fastest weapons and equipment for TP gain, sacrificing damage for increased number of WS.

Side B: THFs should concentrate on DOT (Damage Over Time) and stronger weapon skills.


My own experience has taught me that neither side has a major advantange over the other. Some people laugh at those who use Martial Knives, and some people consider Harpe's gimp because of delay. There are two things that you cannot ignore, delay affects Triple Attack rate, and STR can only improve your melee damage. So if you can find a good medium inbetween that, you are doing good.

So thats why Hecatomb Harness is a favored item for THFs endgame. I actually used HH until I got around to getting a DH. The slow is only noticable but not crippling by any means. The full set of Hecatomb gear is mostly used on Gods/HNMs so we dont hit for 0's all the time when trying to gain TP. Aside from that Hecatomb gear is used as swap out gear for WS.

[qaitakalnin]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

right so the gist of it is that thfs (including myself) need a few different peices of gear and we need to have those macro'd for various functions (i have a SATAequip macro an ATT macro and an ACC macro, as i lvl with a bard i just match what food i am eating to the other melee, ie if they eat sushi i eat shusi and go with ATT+ gear and the bard sings att songs, if eating meat go with the ACC macro and bard sings acc songs.) But may be i am just simplifying things?

[aegina]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

there are two sides of the THF fence most people fall on.

Side A: THFs are supposed to be TP speed demons, using only the fastest weapons and equipment for TP gain, sacrificing damage for increased number of WS.

Side B: THFs should concentrate on DOT (Damage Over Time) and stronger weapon skills.

this is so true. i fall under side A. once, someone told me i should make a change to my gear/food. i forget what the change was, but it would give me better damage from my melee's, but make my sata weaker. i treated him like he was crazy. i think i said something like "My job as a thief is not to deal damage, it's to place hate" so i changed my gear back on my next pt.

i'm a tp-mad thief. i want to have 100% tp every time my sata is ready, and i usually succeed. i tend to treat my dot as unimportant, whether it is or not

[Kaickul]

Re: Shark Bite: Assault Jerkin or Cotehardie?

right so the gist of it is that thfs (including myself) need a few different peices of gear and we need to have those macro'd for various functions (i have a SATAequip macro an ATT macro and an ACC macro, as i lvl with a bard i just match what food i am eating to the other melee, ie if they eat sushi i eat shusi and go with ATT+ gear and the bard sings att songs, if eating meat go with the ACC macro and bard sings acc songs.) But may be i am just simplifying things?

Yeah, thats right on with the norm.

There are some THFs that are against using Sushi. Ive seen people argue that using Sushi gimps the THFs ability to DOT or that we have access to so much +ACC gear that using Sushi is pointless. Whatever the case, use what is good for the situation since you can pack on your ACC gear and check the targets for a low evasion rating.

i think i said something like "My job as a thief is not to deal damage, it's to place hate"

Ive made the mistake of stating that THFs are not Damage Dealers in response to someone asking if THF was a good DD job to level up. I was flamed with screenshots of 1500+ damage Shark Bites and such.