Subjob Guide; SO STOP ASKING!

[guyincorporated]

Originally posted by Funguwari
THF/BRD?

Wow...

Go home, you tool.

Your (bad) flame is 2 and a half months late. You fail.

[Tokitoki]

rofl

[Prefect]

About a week or two ago I was in a PT in Qufim with a DRG/BRD. His song was helpful to the PT. I could see it working has as well for a THF. Admittedly, you wouldn't want every melee in the party to have BRD sub, but one seems to be fine.

[Rones]

THF/BRD?

Wow...

Go home, you tool.

Thank you for such an excellent counter to the many points I provided months ago that you didn't even take the time to address.

[Dragonhope]

I think it's a good idea to gather all the /sub in one thread too. On that note, I told people that there was a difference between Double and Triple Attack stacking and being activated seperately. No one believed me...but I don't see how else a THF/WAR can do 6 hits in a row without any delay. Some people said it was just double, triple and a normal attack coming one after another that made it look like that but I did enough of those before the 6 hit happened to notice the slight delay between each. It's even more rare then two Triple Attacks in a row but like the other person said, it CAN happen.

Another thing about /BRD and Mineut i'd like to add. The damage you do to a monster depends on what it cons to you. If it cons high defense, you'll probably do 5-10 damage per hit. No defense con, you'd probably do 10-20. On a low defense con, you'd do 15-30. Whether a monster cons as high defense, no difference or low defense depends on your attack. The +att to a THF might not do much difference but having a +6 att added to a WAR or DRK or DRG can make the monster con as normal defense instead of high defense. That actually increases the damage quite a bit since those jobs use heavy damage weapons. If you're in a PT from 10-29, I also think a /BRD would be more useful then /WAR or /NIN or /MNK for the whole PT. Whether they're using Paeon or Minuet, both will be useful as long as there's only one or two people using /BRD (preferably 1).

And since I don't see any screenshots by toki nor do I see him still saying it's bad, I guess he found out that it's not as bad as he thought or hasn't got around to trying it out yet. And since this thread has reminded me that I can actually sub /BRD, I think that's what i'll use when leveling my DRG ^^

[Tokitoki]

I'm sorry but i do think its still a stupid sub choice, but no i didnt try it out because i completely forgot about it.

[Dragonhope]

I think it makes sense. I remember fooling around with a PLD/BRD and did ok but that was under level 10. I haven't tried it out as well but theoritically, it should work. Of course it's better to get a full BRD/whatever over /BRD but before level 30, (29 and below), this should still be pretty effective in parties since it effects more then just you.

[Icemage]

Oh, my. Yet another discussion about /BRD that I've missed?

I played WHM/BRD from level 59 to 75. Things to note:

/BRD Madrigal is as Rones stated. Nearly as effective as a main bard, and lasts the full 120 seconds.

/BRD Minuet is really weak. Since you only get one song to use at a time, unless it bumps someone into the next damage ranking (see above post), it's generally not worth using.

/BRD Paeon I/II is very useful at low levels. One of the main issues with party dynamics in low level parties is aggro control, and for WHM/RDM/SMN who are healing, they rack up immense hate until they get access to Regen. Paeon takes some of the pressure off the healers, which is a huge plus.

The real challenge is finding 8 seconds of uninterrupted time to sing a song, but a good player should be able to find opportunities to do so.

Overall, I happen to think that if someone less busy can use /BRD at low levels, they should be doing it, and not the THF, since Sneak Attack gets used every 60 seconds, but that's not to say it won't work. From an individual standpoint, /MNK is stronger, but Madrigal and Paeon's effect can not be discounted when you look at the strength of the party as a whole.


Icemage

[Dragonhope]

As long as it's on the main tank and the biggest hate pullers it should be ok I think. You're probably right in that it shouldn't be a THF subbing it if possible since THFs normally do the pulling. Maybe Paeon can be started after SA damage is dealt...that might help a bit...who knows. Songs are tricky to use after all.

[Tokitoki]

Well since THF are mainly a weaker WAR at low lvls its really best to be using a melee subjob. Thats the reason i dont think BRD is a very good SJ. All THF will tell you that pre-15 all THF is, is a watered-down WAR w/o prov. At 15 we start to get better and rather than using a sub that wont beefit us greatly, its better to use a SUB such as MNk that gives you good physical skill or WAR which does the same. Though id have to say MNK is best.

[Dragonhope]

Actually it's worse then a watered down WAR. A WAR is on equal grounds at these levels with DRK and DRG and such. THF is more like a PLD without the self-healing abilities and defense. On that note, I refuse to invite WARs that use a Sword into my PT whenever i'm leader at all times.

[Tokitoki]

See thats my point! Would you rather a DD that cant DD or a DD that can deal soem decent damage with a good sub?

[Novac]

You obviously never did SA-Combo at low levels.

I'm not going to tell you how good it is because you're dead set on not trying things out youself anwyay.

Thieves below 25 outdamages every single melee class out there with SA-combo.

After 25 and before 50, WAR outdamages every melee class with shield break + double attack.

I only thank god the effect of shield break is beneficial with other members of PT, and not a self acc boost.

Pre-15? Thf/war makes you a mnk/war that does slightly less damage, but dodges better. Of course, nobody can beat war/*** pre-15 because they have shield break. Hell, sub brd.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Novac
After 15 and up to 75, WAR outdamages every melee class

Fixed. :p

Originally posted by Tokitoki
See thats my point! Would you rather a DD that cant DD or a DD that can deal soem decent damage with a good sub?

Your point is moot. BRD, pre-20, does the same damage as every other sub excluding MNK. Post-20, /DRK and /DRG gives an attack bonus which will allow them to do more (And DRG gets jump...DRG is actually one of the best SJ for melees 20-30), which adds 10 ATK I believe? On the otherhand, post-22, you get a +15 accuracy bonus. Considering the lack of ACC items at lower levels, it IS a very good boost.

As far as /MNK goes...boost adds like 5 ATK at that level(?), which would be easily beat by Minuet. It's only draw would be when using h2h, but I didn't notice a big difference between SA+Combo and SA+Fast Blade. And, post 17, distortion is better then fusion.

Seems to me that everybody who has tried or played with /BRD says it works, and those who haven't says it doesn't.

[Dragonhope]

Under 30 (even more so under 20), THF/MNK is better then other subs if they use H2H. They get the two punches and with /MNK it's not all that slow so they don't lose that much in delay either. Also the H2H weapons tend to give some +acc as well which helped a bit at low levels. But comparing damage of SA+Fast Blade and SA+Combo...the SA+Combo does more but SA+Fast Blade wasn't too far behind.

So...if you want to be a DD under 30, /MNK is the way to go. If you want to be a supportive player, /BRD I think would be better.