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**DelennFFXI** · 07-05-2004, 04:23 PM

Oh, as for TP gain equipment, I lose a lot of dex and agi, but I gain +18 accuracy. Forgot to point that out.

Hopefully I'll get my 2nd Sniper's Ring soon.

**Mithrael** · 07-06-2004, 07:29 AM

Delenn,

Just trying to make sure I understand what you're going for here. You're trying to boost your damage while you're gaining TP?

Looks like you're on the right track. By lv.57 your marauder's knife has probably really worn out it's welcome. If you really want to keep a SATA bonus on your off-hand you can do a lust or beetle+1. Otherwise, darksteel kukri or another corsair (Attack+10 shouldn't be underestimated). Other than that, you can get another sniper ring and lose the battle gloves for one of the gigas sets. You can also get spike pierces instead of beetle+1s. The single item that will provide the biggest difference is an Amemit mantle (+1) at lv.61. At 63 some pieces of Tiger armor may be really helpful. STR vs. Attack isn't really much of an issue since you don't really have access to equipment for the same slot that provides both. Just up both as best you can with whatever seems like the best option,

Honestly though, as long as you're hitting for more than 0, I wouldn't worry too much about it. By subbing /NIN you put nearly all of your eggs in the SATA+WS basket. You have both lower STR and Attack, and limited spots you can swap equipment in (12 slots available, only some of which have useful gear to fit). Probably the lower of the two problems is your STR, it's only about 2 points lower by subbing NIN. Attack however is tougher because you don't really have access to much that boosts it (you can't wear Kote, CC mitts, or valk mask). After the Attack Up bonus and berserk, you lose about 50 points of attack, I can't come up with any combination of gear that can replace that. The important thing (and the reason why you probably sub /NIN in the first place) is to gain TP as fast as possible so you can unload your WS, and you'll need the accuracy gear you're swapping to do that more than STR or Attack gear.

If your ultimate desire is to increase your damage during TP gain, the best thing you could do is to sub /WAR which gives you higer strength, passive Attack up, and Berserk. All of which will make your individual hits a lot harder.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to suggest one sub is better than the other -- I'm simply saying that on regular (non-SATA) attack, a WAR sub will hit harder.

**guyincorporated** · 07-06-2004, 11:44 AM

I'm in Delenn's situation, too. 57/28 thf/nin, and I also just read the damage calculation thread. That totally changed the way I looked at the game. Thank you. First thing I did after reading the thread was find a log parser =).

For SAnTA I've got all the expected dex+ agi+ gear you'd think of, but for the other 55 seconds, I've switched to Strength gear. Enkilado's bracelets (+7 str), 2 sun rings (+3 str each), 2 beetle earrings +1 (need to buy the spike earrings), and a life belt.

I find that I can still get 100TP in 60-70 seconds (certainly well before my trick partner) and my hits are doing quite a bit more damage on average.

Btw, and I don't just mean to be tooting my own horn: after getting the log parser and examining how much damage I'm dishing out in any fight I'm SO much more impressed with thief as a damage-dealing class! I was outdamaging the fighter and blackmage vs quadavs and crabs the other night, it was outstanding.

**DelennFFXI** · 07-06-2004, 05:50 PM

Ah, thanks to all for the comments.

Summary of remaining questions:

Are the priorities for my thf/nin:
Attack, Weapon Damage, STR, in that order?
What are the priorities for thf/war (see below)
What gains TP faster? Dual Wield II or Double Attack?

Please keep in mind I have Triple Attack already. The answer to this, as well as how much I value Utsusemi for pulling will determine if I switch subs.

edit: Okay, just read the /WAR TP gain vs. /NIN thread. Might be better to not touch this one...
I've heard Dancing edge is significantly accuracy biased. However, is attack better once I get it or DEX/AGI for SATA? Or is multi-hit irrelevant? Yes, this also alludes to changing subs.

Thanks in advance!

FYI: I have both war and nin lvled, and like both, so switching is easy if warranted.

Now for the nitty gritty.

I've been playing around with the idea as war as a sub. Here are the stats:

SATA Stats: thf/war
STR: 50+5 = 55
DEX: 73+27 = 100
AGI: 65+18 = 83
Attack without food: 233
Attack with Meat Mithkabob: 287 (286 for thf/nin)
Attack with berserk+food: 346
Accuracy Bonus: +0

TP Gain Stats: thf/war
STR: 50+6 = 56
DEX: 73+16 = 89
AGI: 65+7 = 72
Attack without food: 240
Attack with Meat Mithkabob: 294 (293 for thf/nin)
Attack with berserk+food: 355
Accuracy Bonus: +18 (still battle gloves, no gigas yet)

Overall, differences compared to TP thf/nin:
STR+2, DEX-3, AGI-3
Attack without Berserk (with and without food): +1
Attack with Berserk+food: +60/62

Wow. Note this doesn't include war's passive attack up bonus since my thf is only 57 (will get at 60). Also, I'm uncertain how this fairs against other classes, but I'm guessing my stats are significantly lower.

Oh well, continuing on...

If I go thf/war though, are my priorities still:

Attack
Weapon Damage
STR

Or do they change?

Finally, hard to measure, but I still believe dual wield II gains TP faster than double attack. I'll try to test that, but it's hard to get a good mob to use as a control constant.

Equipment info:
Same as before, but replace Marauder's Knife with Mahogeny Shield. I can get Strike Shield (Attack+6) easily.

**DelennFFXI** · 07-06-2004, 06:00 PM

Oops, some more questions regarding Lust Dagger (AGI+7, DEX-1, etc) and Greed Scimitar (DEX+7, AGI-1, etc)

For SATA, are DEX and AGI weighed the same?

The main reason I still use Maruader's Knife (DEX+2, AGI+2) over Lust Dagger is because switching would essentially make me DEX-3, AGI+5. I've always assumed DEX was more important than AGI, but I could be wrong. Then again, Lust Dagger is dmg21 vs. Marauder's Knife's paltry 15...

Reading the Does Atk Cap Out thread again, it seems DEX and AGI are simply added to base weapon damage. If this is true, then I should get the Lust Dagger ASAP.
Is greed scimitar worth using against XP mobs (usually IT)? I ask because thieves have Sword Rank D, and I don't think I'll be getting Scorpion Harness + Spectacles anytime soon

As always, thanks in advance!

**Viktoria** · 07-07-2004, 09:46 PM

Delenn, DEX is more useful, I'd say, than AGI if you had to pick one over the other in equal numbers because a bit more accuracy and critical hit rate, however tiny, is still technically better than none. AGI only gives you evasion and ranged accuracy. In terms of SAnTA, DEX will basically help the Sneak part as much as AGI will help the Trick part. So, yes, using a Lust Dagger over a Marauder's Knife would be better from the perspective of improving your SAnTA strike. You're basically coming out ahead by +2 in SAnTA-specific stats.

You'll get a lot of personal opinions regarding the Greed Scimitar. I think it's overrated, but some people may say otherwise.

**Mithrael** · 07-08-2004, 11:03 AM

Sorry, i lost track of the thread a bit ago.

I have no idea about TP gain with war vs. nin. I'd imagine /NIN is faster, but that's a totally uneducated guess.

As far as greed scimitar goes, it'll slow down your TP Gain no matter what. If you have the choice between greed scimitar and lust dagger, I'd say take the dagger. I think the scimitar is a nice toy if you are fighting stuff you won't have trouble hitting.

Putting a priority on stuff like STR-ATK-ACC is always tough. I guess I'd say Attack>STR for /NIN since you're really attack-poor. With /WAR I'd probably say STR since you can remain in berserk mode most of the time if you're careful with your timers.

Your weapon is always extrememly important. But I don't think a 1 dmg increase in weapon isn't worth a 10 attack decrease. For certain, if your weapon upgrade will bridge a gap, like a 17dmg weapon to an 18dmg weapon, it's a no-brainer. But from 21-22, you gain at most 3 damage on your high end by upgrading. If you do that at the cost of 10 attack, you'll probably kill your middle and low end damages.

**DelennFFXI** · 07-09-2004, 01:05 PM

Once again, thanks for the comments

Your weapon is always extrememly important. But I don't think a 1 dmg increase in weapon isn't worth a 10 attack decrease. For certain, if your weapon upgrade will bridge a gap, like a 17dmg weapon to an 18dmg weapon, it's a no-brainer. But from 21-22, you gain at most 3 damage on your high end by upgrading. If you do that at the cost of 10 attack, you'll probably kill your middle and low end damages.

Sorry, but I don't understand the difference between 17-18 dmg gap and the 21-22 gap. Can you please clarify?

Also, I recently bought Enkelados's Brc. for the STR+7. Against Sabretooth Tigers in Batallia Downs (too weak), it boosts my dmg by ~10 per hit o.o Definitely working for farming, although I haven't used it against ITs yet.

Currently saving gil to help the mnk57 in my partial static to afford Spartan Cesti. Overall, the cesti should help the PT more than another Sniper's Ring for me, so it takes priority. As for Lust Dagger, I'm expecting the price to drop a little shortly, so I'm biding my time. Besides, it won't help farming since I can't TA solo

Thanks for the heads up regarding attack for /nin and str for /war. I believe that ranking to be correct. However, I still hold accuracy above both of them, unless I'm mistaken?

Current Shopping List:

Lust Dagger - for SATA and base dmg increase
Sniper's Ring - for accuracy / tp gain
Black/Flora Cotehardie - SATA body armor for lv59
Amemit Mantle (+1) - TP gain back armor for lv61

**replica** · 07-09-2004, 03:12 PM

don't bother with lust dagger, just get yourself 2 corsair knives or wait till 59 and get 2 darksteel kukri+1's (Â´âˆ€ï½€)

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